Ooby you really ought to take a chill pill. Federal Regs 21.29 (g,2, i) says "(Traditional 1-piece jesses may be used on raptors when not being flown)" Not everyone lives in California. My state regs dont allow them either, but Federal Regs do. But the state regs, override federal regs unless they are less then federal. So although I see no reason to use them even when not flying, cause they are a pain in the ..., They still may be legal in some states. But for the sake of argument, what would be the difference with a one peice no slit or the Alymeri with no slit, beside the difficulty of removing them. The regs ought to be changed to "Raptors can only be flown with slitless Alymeri jesses" to really make it safe. (When I say slitless I would be saying no slit or with a hole punched in it.) Alymeri are the best way to go for the simple fact they are easy to change the jesses out of.
Ooby said:
Are you two completely ignorant. ITS ILLEGAL TO USE TRADITIONAL JESSES!!!!!
WTF, read ANY apprentice falconry book.
Ya, take em off if they ever get caught on anything like a perch or part of the mews, forget the fact that if you lose your bird its basically a death sentence. Its a noose on the tarsis that the bird can't get off.
Its obvious neither of you know what you are talking about, so please read more books before you decide to go offering advice. The recommended reading list is very helpfull.
I really CANNOT believe you people don't see the big problem.
Ill give you a scenario that even a 3rd grader can figure out.
2 birds fly off from a falconer. Be it while hunting, from the mews, weathing yard, WHATEVER. One wearing alymeris the other traditionals. Both are in the wild for 3 days and have avoided getting jesses tangled. Both birds, out of boredom or bother, or anger decide to pick at the damn jesses the falconer put on that they dont see around anymore.
NOW, bird number one wearing traditionals can pick and pick and pick and will NEVER EVER get the jesses off. They are on untill they rot off, or the bird dies. Bird number two however is wearing alymeris and is able to snag a button and pull the jesses out.
VIOLA! Bird no longer has jesses. Much less of a chance of being snagged, and a much better chance of survival.
Somebody said ealier that they use the stiffer leather because it keeps from getting caught. Also your example the birds arent in trouble or anything they are flying around with jesses and still even if the bird did take the strap off there is still that part around the leg.
sizing your ancklets is more important that style. How many screen perches do your know of that are still in use? I know they have killed many birds and know of many more falconers that would like to see them made elegal. ...it's usually band for the perceseption of some special interest group out side of falconry.
Actually alot of people around here use screen perches. The only losses I've heard about were of bird that were left unattended while weathering. One was taken by a GreatHorned Owl, and the rest their tethering failed in one way or another and the bird flew off. It might be an issue of the screen perch not being made properly, who knows... The regulations here were "mostly" created BY falconers. At least that's what I've been told. Which would mean that it was in fact falconers that came up with the law requiring birds to be flown with almyri's only. But like i said before, if they put zipties on them to keep them from sliding out, it kinda defeats the purpose.
No one denies the perceived benifit of the alymeri jess system but can you say that if alymeri jesses gets tangled that your bird will have any greater chance than a traditional. Again my point is a tangled jess is a tangled jess. and yes I agree a traditional jess poses a longer term threat than an alymeri. and yes the law you must abide by is alymeries only so all this is mute. But your poor third grade scenario is sadly out of place as it avoids what was said. You keep sicking to the one point and we all get your point there is an advantage to the alymeri system. But it only works as Minca said when it is used as directed. Yes the Califoria falconry club has done a lot to shape the regs for falconry thou the fact that there are regs has more to do with the special interst groups than the falconers, hey wouldn't you rather have a slightly less regulated system in place. Or how about a system that mirrored that of the late 60's no regs at all. But these are not the way it is and hopefully in the long run we are better for it. So traditional or alymeris you don't have a chose realy, so all this is actually wasted space.
One other benefit to almyri's that i just remembered while reading your post, Chris, is that the jesses can turn in them. Which prevents them from twisting up. Especially if you are using synthetic materials instead of the standard leather jesses. But, then, that's a benefit that only applies when the bird is tethered.
I love relavency , you make an excellent point it would have a simalar affect as having a doulbe swivels when the bird is tied to the teathering. And the use of nylon and kevlar jesses is becoming more and more common among those flying the smaller birds.
Post by Master Yarak on Feb 17, 2005 8:39:55 GMT -5
It is imperative that the bird can remove all of its equipment if it gets out. Life is hard enough without the extra weight and risk that not being able to remove the jesses and anklets can cause. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
Ooby is right. The point it the wellfare of the bird. This should always be prime consideration. If properly fitted alymeri jesses lead to a safer situation for a bird that has flown off then it is the proper and decent thing to do.
If it is the law in your state or country, that is what you do. Period. Disagreement with the law is no excuse.
That said. I believe that there are alternatives and in some situations traditional jesses may be approprate, like rehab and large birds. But we must stay legal.
I believe one more thing that I hope to be able to work toward when I have more experience, we should be a self policing organization. The state or fed enforcement should be a last resort. We should be able to enforce our own best practices. If a new system, technique or tool becomes available, we should be able to use it. We should have an environment where innovation is encouraged not stiffled by law. Only when we make our voices heard though proper methods will we gain control of our techniques. Then the state or fed can be reserved for violations of the wellfare of the bird. For now follow the law. Join NAFA.
I've seen a jesse system used on HH and Saker Falcon in the UK that is like a traditional unslit but with an eyelet that accepts a bullet+nylon tether that connects to the swivel. Seems to have the best of both. Can't use it in California? Even if it is better than an alymeri?
Last Edit: Aug 5, 2005 20:38:25 GMT -5 by jfseaman
Good news? - Bad news? Got a call a couple months back about a F R/T with jesses on in the wild, I started watching this Female as she is in next town over, she has succeeded to raise two healthy young this year, all while still having aylmeri jesses that are 12 inches long, I have tryed to trap her on several occations without any luck, I'm still trying to trap her to remove those jess. She is a lucky bird, I'm not saying all birds have bad things happen with jesses on in the wild, but the chances does increase alot for something bad to happen. wes
I'm very interested in this. I'm sure Ooby and Yarak are too. Please keep us informed.
Does she have bells?
If she gets the alymeri jess out before you trap her to remove the equipment please let us know.
It should be the responsability of us all but what are the regulations on trapping a bird with equipment on only for the purpose of removing the equipment and releasing?
She has no Bells, just really long jesses about 12 inches long. First time I seen her, thought she had a snake.
things went like this: Local called LDWF, LDWF called a master falconer just 15 miles north of said town, ask if bird was his and if he could remove jess from bird, as his birds are accounted for, he calls me, Clou was in her mews. We are both after this bird, she was on the clutch, and not moving. Talk about a protective male he comes from nowhere, any time we get close to tree. saw him bring her squirrels, rats and dove. We talked with locals got promission to go in yards and not to shoot us, As time goes past of many attemps with no luck. Two eyass are hard penned and flying and doing well, I'll try and pass again this afternoon.
The location is in a small town and many neighbors, watching us riding around, as well as the police and fire dept. know that we are trying to remove those jesses from her. A couple of days ago I went by and she had a full crop so that was a wasted trip, hard to tell looks like I saw only one jess? she was perched in a lot of branches thou. If I could get there when she is perched on pole across the street, I know she can be trapped. Well we are still trying anyway. Hard to trap in town with cats and dogs everywhere. wes
Wolf; your correct, The problem is not the trap, it's the location and perching habits of this bird. She is very shy of humans. Remember she was someones bird in the past. It would have been too easy, when I tried the whistle if she would have came down for a tidbit! LOL Was watching her on several occations she would put her head down in nest tring to hide from me. John saw her out hunting and soon as he stopped she was gone. Local comes out of house she's gone are gets deeper in tree. only good looks at this bird is from next block with a telescope. wes