RT bates at hunting weight. Now has foot injuries.

[windnfeathers]

I'm a first year apprentice my passage RT was trapped at 2 lbs 4oz. I dropped his weight to 2lbs 3oz during training and he started bating like mad in the mews. I was instructed by my sponsor to raise his weight and darken the mews.
This worked he calmed down and did well on the creance at 2lbs 5oz this was almost disastrous for the first free flight though as he flew litterally to the next county.
So I lowered his weight gradually back to 2lbs 3oz. He does wonderful in the feild but back in the mews he bates like mad if not in a darkened mews or hooded.
He started so suddenly in one day he split open several pads on his feet.
I'm currently, under the advice of both sponsor and vet, treating his feet with Neosporin daily and keeping him in the darkened mews. I changed bow perch surface from sisal rope to astro turf. My sponsor also had me bring his weight back up till this heals. He has stopped bating and the sores are looking marginally better after a week. I was instructed to "ground" him until he heals up.
I have been feeding him once a day in the evening. If that helps.
My problem is if I can get him through this without infection setting in. How can I keep him at weight without him tearing himself up again. I just don't know what I am doing wrong that's causing the behavior. My sponsor is at a loss as well.
Looking for advice here. This is from one day! His feet looked good one day the next all bloody. I darkened the mews and this picture is the day after with the scabs. At the risk of the lashing I'm sure to receive here's what happened.

[Falcon Boy]

Be sure to follow the advice of the vet. Here are my thoughts, but know that I am not a vet and these are just some things to consider. Vets advice and sponsor's advice should be followed since they can see the bird and the set up.

Those are, in my experience, weird sores to get from from bating. From what i've seen bating tends to lead more leg scale damage than foot pad type issues like in the picture. Those almost look like cuts. It's also really weird that it would appear in one day...

So, since I'm not a vet, here are my thoughts:

-Does he bate towards the same direction every time? Typically they do, and typically it's because they see something they want (higher perch, window, something outside the mews like pigeons, etc.). Eliminating that problem may eliminate the bating. This happens with kestrels (not the foot damage, the bating) kept indoors sometimes because they see picture frames, door molding, etc. that they want to sit on because it's higher than their perch.

-What is the flooring? Like I said, I've never seen damage like that due to bating.

-Random thought, I see paracord, any chance he could have gotten that wrapped around the toe(s), bated like mad, and got "rope burns" from it? I'm at a loss as to how the type of injury in the picture occurs from bating, particularly on the back toe.

-Make sure the turf you're using is good turf for perches, not all turf is the same. Most people recommend long leaf turf like that comes on the doormats you can buy at walmart (frequently called daisy mats because they had a fake plant on them).

I'd take a good look at the mews. Analyze everything.

Be prepared for a long-haul, foot damage seems to take a long time to heal. Be sure to keep a close eye on it.
You could also consider switching to feeding in the mornings so he doesn't feel hungry all day, that may reduce bating, esp. if it's weight related.

[windnfeathers]

Originally he would bate toward the widows but I blocked his view of the neighborhood squirrels and he had stopped but we also raised his weight.
This time around he was bating towards the door. My mews interior is covered in smooth plywood so their isn't anything to try to perch on higher than the bow perch.
I am kinda paranoid of bumble foot so I have always been in the habit of checking his feet daily along with checking his equipment for wear. So I know it occurred very quickly. He had some calluses when trapped though these hadn't gone away completely yet. The sores are in the same places the calluses were.
I will talk to my sponsor about feeding in the morning instead of evening. That's a good idea! I feel stupid for not thinking of it myself.

The astr turf was added after the sores appeared he had been on sisal rope. I checked for sharp or hard spots on the perch. The floor is plywood with a large rubber mat put in place during his first bout of bating.
I hope they aren't from the paracord jesses, I just switched to those from leather ones because he kept getting the leather ones twisted in the anklets alost cuffing him. I traded so I could modify the leather ones so they spin more freely in the anklets. The paracord was working so well I just hadn't switched back.

I had thought about maybe he was getting a hold of the edges of the rubber mat but watching him on the security camera he never did.

[yosemity71]

I will echo what Noah said, follow your vet's & sponsor's advice! Little problems with the feet can turn into very serious problems, very quickly!

I am not sure if I missed it in your post or not, but is he tethered or free lofted? Also, what is your floor surface? His talons look pretty dull, were thy like that when he was trapped or is that from the excessive bating as well?

[windnfeathers]

He is tethered floor surface is plywood with a rubber mat on top.
His talons were sharp before this bout of bating. His bating was almost continuous from when I discovered it till I darkened the mews.
I was at work when I think it started. And changed things right away when I got home. I could hear him when I got out of my car so I knew I had a problem.

[yosemity71]

Is the rubber mat a hard material or more of the "Foam Rubber" mat? I have heard of people having trouble with the harder rubber/plastic flooring.

I had trouble with my first red-tail as well. I had him tethered to a bow perch in the center of the mews with a pea gravel floor. His talons got very dull, very quick from bating onto the pea gravel. Luckily he didn't do any damage to his feet. I switched my perching arrangement & my flooring & I haven't had a problem since then. I use a corner perch very similar to this set-up: virtualvideo.cc/falconry/mew.html



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I use long leaf turf instead of rope. My flooring is pea gravel with foam mats & then turf on top.

I think you have to identify both what is causing the injuries & why he is bating so much & then make the necessary changes. If you and your sponsor can't easily identify the problems, I would start with changing the perch surface (sounds like you already did this), then the flooring material & then the perch type/location. As always, listen to your sponsor.

Some birds seem to be more prone to bating & some seem to be content with watching the world go by...

Good Luck, hope we are able to help you in some way!

Dave

[windnfeathers]

The mat is a harder rubber. Its actually a truck bed liner. I can try switching that out for sure. I will ask my sponsor about trying a corner perch. He is calmer on higher perches for certain.

[windnfeathers]

[windnfeathers]

Jan 6, 2017 15:31:09 GMT -5 yosemity71 said:

Is the rubber mat a hard material or more of the "Foam Rubber" mat? I have heard of people having trouble with the harder rubber/plastic flooring.

I had trouble with my first red-tail as well. I had him tethered to a bow perch in the center of the mews with a pea gravel floor. His talons got very dull, very quick from bating onto the pea gravel. Luckily he didn't do any damage to his feet. I switched my perching arrangement & my flooring & I haven't had a problem since then. I use a corner perch very similar to this set-up: virtualvideo.cc/falconry/mew.html



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I use long leaf turf instead of rope. My flooring is pea gravel with foam mats & then turf on top.

I think you have to identify both what is causing the injuries & why he is bating so much & then make the necessary changes. If you and your sponsor can't easily identify the problems, I would start with changing the perch surface (sounds like you already did this), then the flooring material & then the perch type/location. As always, listen to your sponsor.

Some birds seem to be more prone to bating & some seem to be content with watching the world go by...

Good Luck, hope we are able to help you in some way!

Dave

Yosemity71, one question on the corner perch, does the longer tether alow them to get more speed when they bate? I'm just worried about causing different problems is all.

[echotadog]

Plywood is your likely culprit. My RT this year is free lofted in my mews and he has done some pad damage to his feet bating in to the bars. All my perches are Daisy mat, floor is gravel and Astro turf carpet, wallls coroplast .

Go to my profile and look up my foot soaking tub thread . Soaking his feet for an hour a day in Epsom salt water will heal those pads very quickly. It will also sharpen the talons quickly - a few days or a week will make a huge difference.

Your next step ( barring approval from your sponsor) should be freelofting in the Mews. Sounds like tethering is causing your issues. Freeloft or cover that floor pad with Astro turf carpet.

[echotadog]

Also, there's not a single hawk out there that has a specific weight goal. They are all different. If your hawk flew to the next county at that weight, he needs to be dropped more. RT are easily manipulated by dropping by the ounce. Drop an ounce and evaluate that weight for 2 days before increasing the drop. He may be manned but not low enough in weight to hunt. In accipiters that weight zone is called the " problem zone" He could calm down more being reduced in weight, fattening up a wild RT, just makes them act more wild.

[yosemity71]

"Yosemity71, one question on the corner perch, does the longer tether alow them to get more speed when they bate? I'm just worried about causing different problems is all."

No, with that tether setup they they get almost no speed! When they are on the perch they are already at the end of the leash. So they can't gain any speed or hieght, when they bate, they simply parachute down. It may not be a perfect setup & it may not work for everyone, but it has worked very well for me.

[runnergirl]

Jan 6, 2017 13:16:11 GMT -5 windnfeathers said: