Size Matters?

[wes]

BusyTail Hunting; What is the prefect size R/T, Male or Female, be specific please, Big for you, may not be Big of me, weight range, foot size, ex.( hallux 1 1/2"", trap weight 1474 grams, no furishings). Toe width? fat or skinny ( 1/2" or 3/4") If your traping away, search for the prefect R/T

[Weasel]

Depends on the type of squirrel you have. I am partial to the large female RT around the 1500 mark at trapping. The foot size you described will do nicely.....We want fat, long toes as we have the fox squirrels here. I have seen several folks with small males succesfully hunt the squirrels in our area, but they have been know to loose a few in there feet. JMHO

[Bob Dale]

I've talked to Yarak and Weasel about this, but the thesis has been presented that tiercels do not make good squirrel hawking birds. Some how i doubt that. I've seen some gamey little tiercels out there!

[Tiercel78]

Well, I'll let you know how my tiercel does. He was traped at 1100grams,and a foot span close to 4 1/2 inches. Now, it depends on what kinda of squirrels you are flying on. Larger tiercels can handle grey squirrels pretty good. Now if I had large numbers of Fox then I would go with the Hen. I think that tiercels can be good squirrel hawks. Hens are probally the best overall but they have weak spots as well. My sponser swears by tiercels for the habitat here in North FL. It's not very open lots of pines,liveoaks and understory. I'm going to try my luck with the tiercel-Zach

[wes]

Hens WEAK? I'd have to think about that more. Most fresh trapped Hens can puncture just about any glove on the market. Now if your talking slower in flight, maybe in some instances.
I do think you make a good point on the tiercels tho,speed!
I've seen my Hen break a rabbits neck on impact!

[Master Yarak]

No Wes he was not meaning weak in strength. He was saying that they have areas where they are surpassed by the males. Agility acceleration speed those things the Tiercel is better at. I think they can be made into excellent squirrel birds. I am partial to the hens for attitude and foot size and shock power.
Yarak (Who thinks size does matter)

[Tiercel78]

Exactly! Thanks Yarak.

Yes, by no way was I saying that hens are week in strength. I was just trying to defend the tiercels a little cause I think that some can be great little squirrel birds. People tend to pass judement too easy on them. Just like, I've heard that tiercels aren't good on Jacks. Which is Bull, cause my frind's take them like they are going out of style. I like Hens aswell and their reputaion as squirrel hawks serves them well. There are a few birds out there that have been good squirrel hawks. Hen Harris, Hen Gos, even heard of Hen Red Shoulder and so on. They all have their pros and cons but that dosen't mean that they can't be good squirrel hawks.
So, if the Hen RT is queen of squirrel hawking who is King?-Zach

[Dodes]

Tiercel Harpy.

[Weasel]

LMAO!!! I got to watch video of a mating pair of harpy eagles. The guy who works with them has to monitor nest building and mating regimes. He said the females Tarsus was as big as my wrist. They feed the birds dead rats and Rabbits normally, but one night an opposum managed to get into the flight cage and was rooting aroung in the nest box when all of a sudden, out of the darkness, comes this speeding Harpy that nails the heck out of this opposum. It's all on night shot video camera.

[Dodes]

Was that the pair at FW zoo? I keep bugging the hell out of my supervisor and curator to get a pair, but they don't come easy.

[Weasel]

Yup, that's the pair. The male was born in 1960 something! That's an old bird!
The way they get control of the male is by making one of the handlers walk by the cage and the male tries to attack him as the handler seems to be the one it focuses on when getting shots etc.... Once the male bird is down at the fence screaming at that handler they toss a net over it to subdue it.

[wes]

Tiercel 78: I have as well seen male R/T do amazing things, and maybe I didn't ask the right question. I'm looking for measurements, (It's a Wierd Wes thing), weights, foot spand, etc..that would give the bird the greastest advantage. I've read G. Brewer book over and over, he said "38-50 oz. and big feet" what is big? an opinion ? or a lenght like 3 1/2", or is attitude and experience more valued. had a female R/T flying at 1570 gr. and would take squirrels but was slow to flight, she didn't have sprinters speed, but if she put a talon on one, it died. looking for the perfect squirrel hawk is all. since I'm trapping I should look for Mr.-Ms. Perfect. Should I look high side of scale or low. and always carry a ruler in truck. does anyone have any records of pass birds, that were great squirrel hunters and would share info with us?

[Bob Dale]

"Mr. Red Tail", here in Mo. told me that big = hallux of one ince or larger.

[Tiercel78]

No problem ,
No hard feelings here, I may have read to much into the question myself. I was standing up for the tiercels cause I think some could be great on greys. The tiercel I have has a hallux that is 1inch from tarsus to base of Talon. 4 1/2 inch total span from killer talon tip to hallux tip. The killer and hallux toes are about 3/8ths thick. Like I said before, he was 1100 grams when trapped. Personally I think he has rather large feet for a tiercel but I haven't seen very many Eastren birds. I'm origanally from San Antonio and have seen mostly small footed males. I know he likes squirrels cause, when they are at the bird feeder he is at the end of his leash in the weathering area. Well, anyways I hope you find the info you want and find the bird that ends your quest for the perfect squirrel hawk Hen or Tiercel.
Good Luck-Zach ;D

[wes]

Thanks Bob & Zach : Happy Vet. Day and Thanks for your service time! Sorry about any confusion, I'm a guy who deal's in thousand's on an inch daily. About's and close enough drive me wild. I'd agree Zach your male's feet are large for his weight. Caught a nice average female R/T sunday, she is well in size and foot range. 1474gr empty crop, no furishings, Hallux 9/16" wide and 1 1/2" long- talon to talon tips standing measure 5 1/16", she punches though a glove fairly easliy, very sharp points. Have two holes in my thumb to prove it TOO. In just the few days I've had her, She is noticable faster in flight than my last bird (Dyna) was. Seen new bird's sister today, she may be larger, she does have lots of white on breast, so not shore about size difference, hard to tell at 150yrds. Looking for Dyna's sister's from this years clutch. I know she's larger (genetics), maybe next year's clutch. OH Well, bird on the fist and two in the bush, or something like that. Local master's say to get a Female Harris, any opinions? Thanks Guys, I may have a starting point. In search of the perfect squirrel hawk. Wes