Post by Futurefalconer27 on Mar 5, 2015 7:19:00 GMT -5
I am hoping to get a red tail hawk after I take my test under my apprenticeship. I was wondering if anyone had a used telemetry kit they would sell or knew of a good one to buy.
They come up on ebay all the time, just don't look under falconry because the prices will be higher. My friend was able to get a whole set up for ~$200, he picked up a used 219 receiver for $100 + shipping, and then bought a new $100 merlin transmitter. You just need to make sure what you get is compatible. For instance, a 216 receiver and a 219 transmitter isn't going to do you much good.
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
With what Falcon Boy said, search on ebay . I got my Tracker Maxima 1000/5 still in new condition, originally worth 1500$ and bought it for 320$ along with 3 dog tracking collars that came with the package. The lady who I bought it from was a very nice woman to talk with . I've did a post not long ago on this forum linking a whole bunch of used telemetry gadgets that people are selling on ebay. I believe that some are still available to buy still for a good price.
A quick note, as much as I love my tracker maxima (5000/25 and 5000/30) you need to be careful with them since [to my knowledge] the company is no longer in business. I'm not sure if anyone will work on them if they're broken. Merlin may, since they had a variant of the tracker for a while, but i'm not sure. I got both of my trackers off ebay for ~$300 each, but since there isn't anywhere i know of to work on them, i wouldn't spend more then that. Personally I also won't spend that much on the single channel version either, but i also didn't NEED telemetry when i got mine and was able to wait months until the right deals came around.
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
I know this is a little off topic, but to address what Falcon boy said about repair work. Ive found that some of the repairs can be done by shops that do CB radios. Just a helpful thought.
Well, frankly I wouldn't buy telemetry until after you pass your test and have the rest of the equipment and have a sponsor, etc. It's a big expense and not a requirement, esp. if there are other falconers nearby.
But if you have extra money burning a hole in your pocket and want to spend some of it, I can make some suggestions.
Personally, if I were new and wanted something that would last a long time, be accurate, be versatile for many different species of birds, and be known to be reliable, I would get a new R400. I think they're running about $500. In my opinion, it is the best money for a receiver out there right now. I have one of the original ones and love it. My favorite features are the visible signal meter, 216-220 coverage, and the ability to change 'short' 'medium' and 'long' ranges. Once you get good you can generally tell how far away the bird is pretty reliability by the settings you have on.
The downside of the R400 is even though it's smaller then many receivers, its still bigger then i want to carry around (but i have a 3 element yagi, not the little antenna it comes with). In addition, if you're flying anything other then a falcon, they tend not to go real far. Recently I've been flying RT's, micro (kestrel/merlin) and accips (coops). They don't really go too far so I found myself leaving my R400 in the truck. That's why I got the tracker, because it's so small i can bring it with me. It was most helpful with the coops. I'd know he was ~40 yards ahead in brush with game, but the brush would be 100yards long and 20 yards wide, so it was tough to know where in there he was. With the tracker I could find out and go directly to him.
Since you're new, unless you really are comfortable money wise and don't mind dropping $700, I would wait before buying a receiver. There is a lot of other stuff to get before a receiver. But if you do want one, I would get one that's known to be reliable and working right. We have talked on here about getting them on eBay, but if you don't know what should be working and what that looks like then it's hard to know if yours is functioning properly. My friend has one we tried to use. I don't know where they got it but it's readings were all over the place and rarely consistent. That was the only receiver they'd ever used, so they didn't know the difference before i noticed it. If you have someone nearby who is experience with telemetry a used set could save you some money if they can look at it and make sure it works. Like I mentioned, a different friend picked up a receiver for $100 off eBay that works great.
Generally, the common models that are known to work well are the MN-10, the R400, any marshall equipment (but that'll be pricey), and the tracker maxima or classic. Trackers are smaller receivers so they don't have as good of range. The one my friend got off eBay was a 219 innotek or something like that, i'd never used one before but it's worked well for him this year.
A big issue to think about is frequency. It does and doesn't matter, which i know isn't helpful. Most falconry equipment is 216.xxx Most dog equipment tends to be 217.xxx. You need to make sure you get a receiver and a transmitter that are on the same frequency. Not all 216 receivers pick up all 216 frequencies. For instance, the receiver might only pick up 216.001-216.100. If that's the case, you need to make sure you get a transmitter in that range. I mention this because units like the R400 can do everything from 216-220, which means it's helpful if you need to borrow a transmitter or are looking for a friend's bird. It's also important because when you're looking on eBay a lot of receivers are dog receivers, meaning they're usually 217 or 219. You can generally get transmitters for them, but if your friends receivers don't cover those ranges, you're looking on your own if you lose your bird.
I realize i've put a lot of information in this post, hopefully it starts to make sense as you read more about telemetry. The long and short of it is: a) i'd wait to buy telemetry until after you have all of your gear, pass the test, and have a sponsor. b) if you decided you need to buy it RIGHT NOW, then i'd go for a R400 because it's a safe bet. Then you can at least sell it later and recoup most your money if something comes up.
In regards to transmitters, i'll HIGHLY recommend Merlin Systems. They have awesome customer service and their prices are some of the best around. Can't speak highly enough of them.
Last Edit: Mar 7, 2015 18:47:17 GMT -5 by Falcon Boy
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
Post by Master Yarak on Mar 11, 2015 10:16:37 GMT -5
I've thought about this and decided to give my two cents. I don't think I would worry about telemetry for a first Redtail. For many other species it is must. It is never a crutch. I believe that it CAN lead to overconfidence and less than ideal weight management. These beliefs grew out of personal observation. As of now I have brought my bird after every hunt. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
I've thought about this and decided to give my two cents. I don't think I would worry about telemetry for a first Redtail. For many other species it is must. It is never a crutch. I believe that it CAN lead to overconfidence and less than ideal weight management. These beliefs grew out of personal observation. As of now I have brought my bird after every hunt. Yarak
I was thinking this... as of yet, with my limited exposure and experience, I don't know that you really need telemetry for a red tail. Their behavior patterns and how far they will fly at a given time doesn't really make it necessary. If the bird doesn't want to come back to you, it isn't going to come back to you. A telemetry set might be helpful, but could be like cutting open a fresh wound every time you manage to track the bird down and it doesn't come to you but instead flies away again.
Telemetry for a RT : I used to agree with Yarak on needing telemetry for an rt, in part I still do. For me, the money spent on gas while trying to trap another RT and the delay of getting back to hunting with your RT is worth using telemetry on RT. If for nothing else, you learn how to use the tool with a more terrestrial bound Buteo, a welcome skill for those days when a hawk does take off. I have hunted with friends who's RT disappeared on hunts. Either on a chase or being chased off. They were at a perfect established hunting weight and yet were never recovered. likely due to feeding up on a kill or being killed by another predator. Last season at our Squirrel Hawking Meet, an RT flew off a high perch with a squirrel and disappeared , food in tow, into a ravine Covered by storm fallen trees. Without telemetry the small army of men there wouldn't have located him, even with it spotting him was a task. Even the best weight managed RT in that situation would crop up and not be responsive to coming to the glove. Telemetry helped me recover my FHH last season, after she was electrocuted to death. It's a great insurance policy to have, if you can afford it. It's definitely not necessary to use it with a wild RT but it does quell quite a bit of frustration and anxiety when trying to recover a lost bird . If a hawk isn't well trained to the lure, manned properly and weight mgmt applied correctly - telemetry isn't going to bring your hawk back home, it's just going to give you a Front row view of them flying away from you... After they've been relocated. So if you want telemetry and can afford it , go buy it.
Last Edit: Mar 11, 2015 13:48:02 GMT -5 by echotadog
It is good to have an end to Journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the End. - Ernest Hemingway
I recently posted the following on another forum regarding VHF vs. UHF Telemetry. Posting it here because it has some relevance to the comments previously made. Apprentices might benefit from the "BOLD/ITALIC" advice.
For the last 6 years I’ve been using a Communications Specialist—R400 Receiver. It cost me $495.00. I originally purchased it because of its price point and its 216 to 219 frequency coverage. It has served me well. I never had any trouble with it. It works today as well as it did when I first purchased it. Amortized over the last 6 years it cost me $82.50 per year.
Over the last 6 years I’ve also purchased a number of transmitters, and my investment in these transmitters caused me to question if I wanted to upgrade to UHF.
Well, 6 weeks ago I purchased a 2014 Field Marshall Digital Tracking FM UHF 100: (434 MHz) Receiver. It cost me $695.00. When I ordered it, I also purchase a Scout UHF transmitter. I’m extremely happy with my new purchase, and I’m convinced that UHF is the way to go for anyone purchasing there first “Receiver”.
I think that it will be a while before UHF replaces the existing inventory of systems being used by today’s falconers.
So here are my thoughts with regard to this subject:
If you are an “Apprentice” with a limited budget buy an inexpensive transmitter and the $39.95 Signal Sensor (to let you know if the transmitter is on or off) available from Marshall, and borrow are receiver from your sponsor or a friend if you lose your bird.
If you are buying your 1st Receiver buy a UHF unit from Marshall. I don’t think you can do better and I don’t think you will ever regret your decision.
If you already own a VHF system and for whatever reason can justify upgrading to UHF go for it. You will be happy with your decision!
Argue for your limitations and sure enough they're yours. From Richard Bach's "ILLUSIONS" - Diary of a Reluctant Messiah (1977)
If you are an “Apprentice” with a limited budget buy an inexpensive transmitter and the $39.95 Signal Sensor (to let you know if the transmitter is on or off) available from Marshall, and borrow are receiver from your sponsor or a friend if you lose your bird.
I couldn't agree more with this statement ! this is how i worked for the first year of my apprenticeship. I bought a second hand receiver later.
I have to agree to disagree with Yarak though on over confidence and poor weight management. i think if that's going to happen it will happen anyway regardless of the bird having a transmitter attached. Weight management for an apprentice is down to a sponsor kicking butt when its not being adhered to. Finding that sweet spot that the bird hunts like it's on fire is the goal with or without telemetry.
There is a simple rule for telemetry you put it on birds you want to keep. its not just about locating way ward birds. I had an RT that would sore above the canopy looking for squirrels it took everything to just keep up and keep an eye on where it was. Last week out hunting a coyote ran out after some rabbits we had been chasing. Having telemetry is vital in those situations to locate a bird in deep cover that has gone to ground with a catch.
The Marshall Scouts with a well fitted backpack are the way to go for larger birds. I also like the small Merlin transmitters that weigh 3 grams for smaller birds.
As for receivers get what you can afford. The trackers are awesome for dialing in multiple transmitters (and some come with and external yagi attachment) but the marshalls are going to be around for a long time.