I trapped a RTH last Saturday, 1144g, in good condition and apparent good health so far as I can tell. She (we think its female...) seems perfectly healthy and normal, but the urates in her mutes have consistently been a cream/light-tan color. They look completely normal otherwise. I haven't found any information that indicates this is a problem, except statements in various places that the urates should be bright white (i.e., Modern Apprentice's 'Mutes' page). There are no other symptoms or indications of any problems whatsoever. I've waited a few days to see if it might have been something she ate before being trapped, but its now been 5-days and they remain the same off-color.
Before going to the vet (with a seemingly healthy bird), I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone has encountered this sort of thing before. Any insight would be most appreciated.
I trapped a RTH last Saturday, 1144g, in good condition and apparent good health so far as I can tell. She (we think its female...) seems perfectly healthy and normal, but the urates in her mutes have consistently been a cream/light-tan color. They look completely normal otherwise. I haven't found any information that indicates this is a problem, except statements in various places that the urates should be bright white (i.e., Modern Apprentice's 'Mutes' page). There are no other symptoms or indications of any problems whatsoever. I've waited a few days to see if it might have been something she ate before being trapped, but its now been 5-days and they remain the same off-color.
Before going to the vet (with a seemingly healthy bird), I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone has encountered this sort of thing before. Any insight would be most appreciated.
Hard to tell without seeing them, can you post pictures, also what are you feeding her ? How much weight has she lost since you trapped her ?
She was 1144g when trapped last Saturday, and I wormed her with fenbendazole via a crop needle while she was socked up still. She appears to be healthy and normal in every other way so far.
She weighed 1085 on Sunday, 1057 on Monday, and wouldn't eat until Tuesday, when she weighed 1028g. I only gave her 8g of deer heart tidbits since her weight needed to be lower still. Wednesday she weighed 993g; had her on a sawhorse and got her to walk across to me (but not step or jump to the glove) with another 7g of heart tidbits. Yesterday she weighed 974g and pretty much repeated the previous day's performance: would come across the sawhorse, but wouldn't step or hop to the glove. She's getting close tho, so I spent a little more time working with her and gave her 13g of tidbits -some heart and then some squirrel (to see if maybe she just liked something else better...she didn't).
Her mutes have been consistent throughout. They were larger the first day after trapping and slowly smaller from lack of eating, of course, but textbook other than the slight color thing. She had dried blood mixed with short grey fur on her talons and beak when trapped and the casting she put up Monday all point towards a mouse meal shortly before being caught and since the color hasn't changed I don't think its related to food at this point. There's no streaking or variation in the color, its just a uniform cream-color. Doesn't look like blood, it isn't pink at all, it isn't brown. I can't find anything indicating it is a problem: none of the known diseases presents with this so far as I can ascertain from the resources I have checked. Since she is so healthy and active I haven't considered it to be something to get alarmed about, so I've just been monitoring her closely (as I would with a new bird anyway). I take her in to work with me every day, so she sits next to me in my office all day, giving me the chance to watch her nearly continuously (except at night when I put her in her giant hood). So I see all of her mutes and they are all the same.
Hopefully someone here will have some insights, or failing that I'll schedule a trip to the vet early next week. Better safe than sorry...
The first place I looked was the MA page on Mutes, nothing helpful there, unfortunately.
I discussed this with my sponsor shortly after we got the bird jessed and wormed after trapping Saturday and she pooped the first time. He suggested the course of action I have followed (and outlined above), including posting here to see if anyone has seen this sort of thing before.
I'm mainly interested to know if anyone else here has seen mutes this color, or has relevant experience or information about such. If it continues I'll see the vet, of course, but had hoped someone here might have seen something like this.
Took my bird in today for a vet visit. He didn't know of any problem or concern associated with mutes like this, and a thorough fecal exam found nothing unusual or problematic. He felt like the off-color is of no concern, and the bird seems perfectly healthy.
Thanks again to those offering advice and insight, it was greatly appreciated!
Please Note that the original post was talking about tan urate (they are normally white). Not The center area or fecal, this will change color depending on diet. Tan normally is a diet of rats. FB gave a good site reference to the modern apprentice page on mutes themodernapprentice.com/mutes.htm
Thought I'd post a follow-up, in case anyone might be interested. Once I began feeding squirrel with bones included her mutes became white again, so I assume the off-color was calcium related. Any time she's fed boneless meat the coloration reverts, so I'm keeping bones in her diet regularly. Considering a calcium supplement, although she's doing great as-is: flying well on the creance, plan to fly her free this weekend.
I'd stay away from vita hawk personally . It's preserved with ethoxoquin ; a preservative thought to cause cancer . Pro Vital on the Other hand does not contain it . It also has enzymes and pre ( and )probiotics that help increase Mineral intake and detour calcification in the joints and bones of raptors that can be caused by artificially ingesting non chelated minerals in excess over a long period of time . Whatever supplement you use , use it lightly and rely more on a varied diet for optimum nutrition . That VitaHawk sure does make for some amazingly yellowed tarsus on Our birds though ...
Last Edit: Mar 13, 2012 15:28:38 GMT -5 by echotadog
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