Harris Hawks & Tree Rats!

[harrishawker]

Over here in old Blighty land there is a general consensus that Falconers should not hunt their HH at squirrels.
Individually I am very much the Minority that they should although I think a small Male I might have second thoughts. This has produced antagonism with many falconers I have known saying it’s malicious but I argue the point powerfully. This has cost me a few friends but i will not alter my views

Keep in mind we only have crèche reared and not passive so that may give you cause to debate as it does with them

I would like to hear some views on flying HH at Squirrels and conceivably those who have done it

[MarkT]

I fly my male HH at about 625g plus or minus a little. For the most part, he gets a hold of every squirrel he goes after. So far he has also gotten bitten by every squirrel he has put a foot on. Because of that I try my best to stay away from situations where my bird may see a squirrel. While the flights are spectacular, it isn’t worth the danger involved for me to take my harris out after squirrels.

[Joby]

I used to think it would be cool to fly my FHH on squirrels, then she took a bite to her center toe which completely severed the flexor tendon. $1,000 later in vet bills (surgery)....I'll only fly a FRT on them now. They're much better equipped for the job!
-Joby

[ikcus]

I will agree with Joby completely. FRT all the way. Compare a FHH foot thickness to a FRT and there is a big difference. A MHH is clearly not equipped for the task. Do not get me wrong some have taken squirrels with a MHH, but it is only a matter of time until they loose a toe or tendon IMHO. I have been flying a small FRT (1010g) for two seasons going on three, and I keep her clear of squirrels. I much prefer hunting her on 8-10lb hares. She gets a workout, gains ultimate confidence, and she fills the freezer with plenty of food. I might hunt her once this year on squirrels just to prove to some of the squirrel hawkers out there that RT's can be jack hawks and still slay squirrels with not much more than putting them in an area full of squirrels. I will probably chicken out and or not have the time hunting a FRT and a FHH this coming season.
As for your MHH, push him hard by trying to take ducks and pheasant. Ducks and pheasant are not the easiest for a HH, but a male has some nice off the line speed to do so. Plus, eating pheasants and ducks is much more rewarding than eating squirrels........hahahahaha.
I hope Yarak chimes in here. He is a top notch squirrel hunter, and his FRT was a straight squirrel killer. I give him major props and call big b@lls for slaying as many squirrels as he and his FRT did.

Joe

[Deleted]

Tree rats vary in size and attitude. The big fox squirrels we have here in Michigan are viscious and I wouldn't think a HH would be a good choice. The smaller grey squirrels and blacks are less dangerous. Other states have different types also. They too seem a bit smaller and less dangerous. In the end, I would not fly a HH on any type of squirrel, although there are those that have done it with success. I think jfneumann57 did it with a pair of HH's.

[Master Yarak]

Obvious to me is how many who have responded to this thread are right on target. Yes, taking squirrels with a Harris can be done. It is NOT something I would do. Big feet more grip strength and more body mass are the elements that will make the difference. Brewer flew a cast of two for a few seasons on them. They were successful but many squirrels got away some the birds did not even engage.
Yarak

[harrishawker]

Would a HH take a Squirrel in the Wild

[Master Yarak]

No it would not. Tall trees and deserts are mutually exclusive. Not good squirrel habitat.
Yarak

[borderhawk]

I don't know about Texas, but there are ground squirrels in the HH habitat here in AZ. They are smaller than packrats and very fast, kinda looking like chipmunks running around. I can imagine they would be much easier to handle than "tree rats", but they're almost a completely different game. I suppose it could be possible for the HH's down in Central America to try the squirrels, they're gamey birds.

[harrishawker]

But where there are squirrels in exclusive areas do they not take them in the wild?

I am not doubting or questioning anybody's veracity here as after all they are indigenous only to the US and not here.

So any view I have are flawed and without fact, I am just surprised they wouldn’t???

[borderhawk]

Aug 17, 2009 16:08:49 GMT -5 harrishawker said:

But where there are squirrels in exclusive areas do they not take them in the wild?

I am not doubting or questioning anybody's veracity here as after all they are indigenous only to the US and not here.

So any view I have are flawed and without fact, I am just surprised they wouldn’t???

They are indigenous to the southern part of the North American continent, Central America, and the northern tip of South America. The parts of their range that extend into the U.S. is only a fraction, and it is quite possible that those populations further south may live in more wooded areas that have a tree squirrel population large enough to become a common enough prey item.
Here, in AZ at least, the tree squirrels exist at higher elevations out of the Harris's preferred range. Harris's are only found at lower elevations where the winters are warmer, and the land is dominated by thorny scrub brush, mesquite thickets, and often times Saguaro cacti. There is no exclusive tree squirrel populations in these areas, only terrestrial species which are smaller. It's possible, in areas where they're adapting to human development and living near suburban areas where people grow larger trees, perhaps, some vagrant tree squirrels have moved in and offered them a new game to try. But it would have been added to their menu too recently to have evolved for hunting them they way the Redtail already has.
If more research could be done (or has been and I'm not aware of it) of the Harris populations further south in the more tropical regions..... and maybe we could add more individuals from there to the breeding stock here in the states we may see a different bird..... I dunno. I thought I'd heard someone had already done it and I'd like to hear more on the subject from them if it's true.

[harrishawker]

Aug 18, 2009 1:59:28 GMT -5 borderhawk said:

Aug 17, 2009 16:08:49 GMT -5 harrishawker said:

But where there are squirrels in exclusive areas do they not take them in the wild?

I am not doubting or questioning anybody's veracity here as after all they are indigenous only to the US and not here.

So any view I have are flawed and without fact, I am just surprised they wouldn’t???

They are indigenous to the southern part of the North American continent, Central America, and the northern tip of South America. The parts of their range that extend into the U.S. is only a fraction, and it is quite possible that those populations further south may live in more wooded areas that have a tree squirrel population large enough to become a common enough prey item.
Here, in AZ at least, the tree squirrels exist at higher elevations out of the Harris's preferred range. Harris's are only found at lower elevations where the winters are warmer, and the land is dominated by thorny scrub brush, mesquite thickets, and often times Saguaro cacti. There is no exclusive tree squirrel populations in these areas, only terrestrial species which are smaller. It's possible, in areas where they're adapting to human development and living near suburban areas where people grow larger trees, perhaps, some vagrant tree squirrels have moved in and offered them a new game to try. But it would have been added to their menu too recently to have evolved for hunting them they way the Redtail already has.
If more research could be done (or has been and I'm not aware of it) of the Harris populations further south in the more tropical regions..... and maybe we could add more individuals from there to the breeding stock here in the states we may see a different bird..... I dunno. I thought I'd heard someone had already done it and I'd like to hear more on the subject from them if it's true.

Good post and very informative.
I hope somebody can broaden the issue. Perhaps someone will add to their experiences. The only real indigenous hawks over here are the goshawk and the sparrow hawk, Buzzards too but very few are flown as they are more carrion eaters. Excluding falcons.
With any luck I can get over the pond too see a HH and a RT in the wild. Spars in the wild here are very common; indeed I have a local one who on a regular basis comes and kills of my bird feeder. They for the most part eat birds up to pigeon size, Goshawks are quite rare to see in the wild but if you do and you get to see it hunt it’s the meanest of all the hawks, a wild one is a incredible sight to see weaving in and out of the forest floor, nothing gets away, I have seen one pursue on foot through brush and round a pond, the duck then floated in the middle of the pond, the gos tried to take it off the top it pretended to fly off only to come back to get to its quarry....

[Master Yarak]

apfalconry.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=squirrelhawking&action=display&thread=1634&page=1

This is where I put a bit more info and a link about squirrels.
Yarak

[harrishawker]

Aug 18, 2009 6:54:41 GMT -5 Master Yarak said:

apfalconry.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=squirrelhawking&action=display&thread=1634&page=1

This is where I put a bit more info and a link about squirrels.
Yarak

What a huge array of squirrels you have over there.
You lucky 'Buggers' mind you i think i forget how Big the US is, i think britain can fit inside Texas!!

Well Done Kieth

'hours'..?....Don't you mean weeks

That article has to be a 'Sticky' in this section
Does anyone agree