open comments needed!!

[killjoy]

they are taking comments on bird abetment and eagle propagation.
(my spelling sux!)

here are some links
Proposed changes to Migratory Bird Permitsgoverning Raptor Propagation can be found at:

www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-07-06/pdf/2011-16877.pdf

and

Proposed changes to Migratory Bird Permits governing Abatement Regulations using Raptors at:

www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-07-06/pdf/2011-16880.pdf

for me personally,
breeding eagles is not a big concern for me.
unless they reduce the restrictions, god i hope they dont, then the few eagles a year that are taken are probably more than enough.

but, it couldnt hurt either.
would like to know how much a CB raised eagle goes for.

[Austin]

I posted a reply on the federal web. I think there will be a lot of various thoughts on the subject. I would like to see golden eagles raised in captivity but not for profit. I think if a person raised them and wanted to give a bird to another falconer then there should be some type of fair costs attached to compensate for the costs and time in raising them.
If not these raptors will be selling for thousands of dollars and that will surely gather a lot of attention.
I don't know if i would in particular want to raise two or more of them. I Had two RT's and they ate somewhere around 365 pounds of meat in a year. A golden eagle could probably eat half a deer in a week. That would work fine around here because we have thousands of them everywhere.

[Falcon Boy]

Personally I disagree, I'm all for goldens being treated as just another raptor as far as breeding goes. Will they be more expensive? Yes. Why? They eat more and there isn't as many. Realistically after a few years the price will drop back down, just look at aplos or any of the popular hybrids. Prices are sky high then drop when people realize what they are....just another bird.

Golden take right now is extremely limited. I think they allowed 6 birds this year. That left a lot of permittees without a bird because they weren't drawn. Currently, WY is the only state with 'depredation areas' where goldens are allowed to be taken from in the wild. Why should they be relegated more than other birds? In the UK they do not have such regulations and they don't seem to have issues, what makes us so different? The first few years you may have problems, and yes, every now and again the problem bird will turn up, but it will come down to falconers policing themselves.

[killjoy]

FB,
i agree, but if you are going to us the UK as a source then you have to give everyone a shot at an eagle.
if the laws were lax for eagle take i would almost demand a breeder. but as it is now, you have to jump thru hoops of fire, swim thru oceans of sharks, and get the eye of a newt in order to APPLY to trap an eagle.
then there is the actual trapping trip.

and i really havent seen any drastic drop in cost of the alpo, are they $800 and i missed it?

Austin,
will never happen.
look at the cost that gyrs use to be, and still are in some cases. my sponsor would tell me stories of the $10,000-$20,000 gyr!
4 years ago there was an add on raptors nest for a tiercel saker,
"worth every bit of the $5000.00 i am asking for it."

and then they made using CB harris hawks legal for bird abetment and the price of thoes birds stooped into the ground.

in reality, there are about 3000 falconers, give or take.
i know 2 master falconers that have flown eagles, but neither wish to do so again.
so how many masters are out there and how many want to fly eagles?
i can count 1, Austin.
but i dont see that as being too much different then the passage peregrine take. there is the same lottery in place for the passage peregrine as there is eagles and alot of people are disappointed every year.
i know you can still purchase a peregrine, but i think more people would rather fly a passage peregrine than an eagle.
this is just my opinion.

[Falcon Boy]

Aplo's used to be 3500 either sex, and that was when they went "mainstream". Now they are as low as 1500 "mainstream". By mainstream i mean raptorsnest.

I used the UK as an example for the problem birds issue, not bird availibility. I don't think everyone should be allowed an eagle. The permitting system we have i don't think is changing anytime soon.

There are quite a few falconers who have permits but weren't drawn for the 6 bird take. Not to mention the trip costs as mentioned, esp. if you don't get a bird. Not to mention, anytime the feds want they can close the depredation area, then what?

[SkyRider]

I think policing golden eagles a little tougher is a good call. Golden eagles are big big raptors. And require almost a separate background of knowledge to turn into a falconry bird. If we start handing em out like candy, there are bound to be a few falconers who lose control of their bird and it does damage that casts a bad light on falconers every where.

If breeding golden eagles is allowed, I think a special breeder's permit wouldn't be a half bad idea. Limiting the number that are captive bred each year cuts down on the chances of someone incapable of flying one from getting one.

Granted, they are still a falconry bird. And I have no problems with the falconers who do fly them. But making them tougher to get usually keeps the guys who wake up one morning and go 'Man, a golden would be sweet!' from running out that afternoon and trying to trap one.

[Falcon Boy]

You both are missing a key point: To possess a golden eagle, you need a federal eagle license. Therefore, to fly one, you still need said license. More birds doesn't mean any getting into the "wrong hands". They could only go to eagle falconers.

[Austin]

I think being in the right eviorment is another key for eagle falconry. Where I'm at isn't the best of places unless you go way up north where the bird can reach out into an area that's open. I think I'll stay with the big RT's they are perfect for us here in this part of the state, and you get to hunt for a while, not like go out turn the bird lose kill the duck go back to the car..
They really put on a show which pumps you up..

[killjoy]

I'm not missing the point, I understand completely.
Without the fed books in front of me, I don't think there are an over abundance of master falconers with the right criteria to get the eagle permit, and trap an eagle.
I understand there were people that didn't get the permit to trap one this year, but same was said for the passage peregrine lotto.
Now, if the numbers are in the hundreds of people who didn't get a permit, then I would think breeding would be great.
But I am thinking I can count the number of people on all my hands and toes that wanted but didn't get permits, all 23 of them.
Again I could be wrong, this is just my estimation.

[killjoy]

well i was born in tennessee!
naw, all the extra fingers are on my right hand, so my glove hand is cool!
i can type like a mother tho!!!

[cliff]

Let's face it, if the Feds. removed all of the additional regs. on eagles and lumped them in with the other falconry raptors there would be very few who would qualify to trap, train and keep such a large size raptor. I once lived in an area where I could look up and count upwards of a dozen and more golden eagles at a time. They are very large birds with equally large appetites and require lots of room to fly. These prerequisites alone eliminate most falconers as eagle handlers.

[username]

If the eagle falls under the "wrong hands", then I feel that that person won't have much of a hand left. Probably worse for the human than the bird. Don't stop people from getting to work with one of these birds that is completely capable, but forcing them to jump leaps and bounds to get one. There is no way to 100% stop people that lack the ability to become a successful at falconry... I don't want an eagle because of the fact they can rip my face off, but if someone, who has all of the capabilities, wants to work with such a massive predator, it shouldn't be as difficult as it is now. Make it not so hard, breed the beasts