OK, what opinions do you have for the best falcon for "off the fist" or "out of the hood" type pursuits in enclosed terrain? Let's say quarry from starlings all the way up to cottontails and ducks. I know some quarry like quail, crows, doves...etc. are very dependent on the "right" slip. I also know bunnies are not necessarily the best quarry for longwings. I also am more interested in limiting this to falcons and hybrid falcons. I know true accips and MHH are good at this type of flight, but I want to know your opinions on the longwings in accip style hunting. Mostly due to personality differences between accips and falcons. Just morbid curiosity here.
The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.
Noel, You make it look easy. But not everyone will have your success, you have exceptional style. You knew what your bird was capable of and ran with that knowledge, and you should be commended for it. ;D I'm not just complimenting your bird either. I am totally confident you could do it over and over again with different birds. But that's my point, I know you were hunting with a gyr hybrid and that's the kind of posts I am looking for. Albeit, you had him waiting on, and I'm really curious about pursuit flights. And I wonder what else your going to try out on them bunnies/ KEEP EM COMIN....I'm really interested. ;D
The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.
I also know bunnies are not necessarily the best quarry for longwings.
Why not? Mine seemed to do pretty well from a waiting on
Oh...and to reply to your question.... It is widely believed that "many" falcons simply don't have the space needed to finish the job with rabbits. They will stoop and hit them...sometimes multiple times, without finishing the job before the rabbit makes it to cover. OBVIOUSLY this didn't turn out to be that big a problem for you. Also, I know nothing and don't claim to. I am just stating what I have read. You have already proven that it is far from accurate at least on some level. ;D
The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.
Post by Master Yarak on Apr 17, 2009 6:50:29 GMT -5
Every raptor fills a niche. By understanding the birds natural history one can come to understand what that role is. When I think of tail chasers two come to mind. A Gyr and a Saker. Looking at the habitat these birds live in its clear to see why. Vast amounts of unbroken terrain. The problem I see is that most places we hunt do not offer that. A Gry in hot pursuit of a healthy duck could range much more than a mile. Look closer and you can see that would increase the risk of loss. The time it would take to locate and recover the bird would leave plenty of time for something bad to happen. Say another raptor or a ground predator. Hunting mammals in that style would be less problematic. Both of these species do take mammals.
So after all that, the best pursuit falcons IMO are these two. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
Post by Falcon Boy on Apr 17, 2009 10:39:07 GMT -5
Pursuit flights do take longer distances and to be honest finding cottontail slips for a falcon pursuit style would be next to impossible in most situations due to holes in the field. The reason pursuit flights take so much space is very simple - speed. Falcons use speed to kill. Thats why i flew from a waiting on. A gyr, saker, or hybrid of the two is absolutely devastating from an angled stoop. The reason many falcons [at least with gyr or saker in them] hit and don't kill rabbits, in my opinion, is because of the pursuit style flight. They don't have the angle nor speed necessary to kill outright when flown like that, especially if you're talking about enclosed spaces.
I hardly ever flew with dogs and never with sighthounds. We used a pointer 2-3 times but she stops when the rabbit flushes.
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
I read on the IFF where there was a guy talking about his Gyrlin being good for enclosed areas. That's what got me wondering. I have to agree with what Yarak said about losing one due to extended tail chases. And that ground quarry might be a better choice. However, as Noah stated that may prove difficult. I have read that merlins tend to stay "fairly" close, somewhat like a kbird, but still tend to chase a bit farther. So I thought a Gyrlin might have some potential there, being slightly larger than a merlin. Still not large enough for bunnies IMO. Probably just a pipe dream, I just thought a falcon in enclosed terrain would be great. Thanks guys KEEP EM COMIN!!
The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.
Post by profalconer on Apr 17, 2009 15:44:28 GMT -5
Any falcon you put gyr into can probably be a pretty good tail chaser. To me any flight that ends in a kill a 1/4 mile out or farther can be very risky. This happens with waiting on flights as well, but less often than a tail chase on a fit game bird. The traditional pursuit flights are more of a ringing up flight rather than tail chase into the distance. I have seen this flight with a gyr/saker at the landfill on a gull. He was the only bird I had seen that could outclimb a sea gull and ring it up. That flight wouldn't bother me because it would stay right over my head. I still prefer waiting on but the ringing up flight was fun to see. A traditional ringing flight with a merlin would be on larks, which are protected at least in my state.
Post by dirthawker on Apr 17, 2009 15:53:50 GMT -5
I know that you are only wanting long wings in this thread. but for all the stuff you are talking about sparrows to CT a HH, gos, or a coops will do you very well. I am also bias and say a coop. the coops from the fist will out perform a longwing because they can get the speed up very fast and bind to the game. the flying style of the coops lends its self to this type of flying because all the rely on is speed and agility. they can turn on a dime and will still crash brush
Post by Falcon Boy on Apr 17, 2009 17:43:29 GMT -5
I have never spoke to anyone who has seen a gyrlin good for small areas, everyone i've talked to whos seen them fly said they are like merlins in that they quickly figure out if they chase it long enough they will catch it.
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
WOW guys, you really are giving me the info I am wanting!
You read some stuff on forums and it makes you wonder... I have to admit, dirthawker has pretty well put it the way I am now thinking. HH, Gos, or Coop would definitely fit the bill better than any falcon. The only thing that made me want to drive this thread toward falcons is the personality differences, and to see if it would be a viable undertaking. I didn't know that Gyrlins were the most "losable" falcon. See I'm learning something here! Thanks, forestfalcon and everyone else contributing. That's what this forum is about, right? Have to agree with profalconer's comment about 1/4 mile chase being too risky. Besides, everyone wants to see the catch. ;D The ringing flights would be SWEET, but I don't know how consistently it could be pulled off. Without the flight going to the next county, anyway. Maybe it's just me, but I'm learning stuff from this thread that tends to lurk in the background. Those with the knowledge sometimes don't think to pass along this kind of info until someone comes out and asks. So much to learn, and only one lifetime to do it in....
The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.