Which dog?

[ottodita]

Hey everyone,

I've never trained a dog to hunt. Just normal commands, sit, stay, make me a sandwich, etc.

I do have a few questions.....Regarding hunting, training.

I breed toy fox terriers. But, for just the every day companion, I just put a deposit on an Australian Shep. The Toy Foxes are my wifes. I did a little bit of reading and seen a lot of folks like the JRT's. Sooo, I was wondering, what do you all suggest for which I make my hunting companion? The AS or the TFT?

I really want the AS, the TF's are babied and really dislike the cold weather a lot. They don't do so well in the snow. But, they're quick, and quite agile. And love chasing everything.

I have some puppies right now that are ready to go. Was wondering if I should keep one back and train it to hunt. Or train both!!

Since I have not started my apprenticeship yet, will I be able to train my dog to get used to my bird once I get a bird? Since my dog will be older.
I don't want her hurting my bird...or scaring it.

Way too many question. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Shane

[borderhawk]

An AS won't be able to get down into the bushes and flush the rabbit like your FT's will, but the AS will probably be more controlable in terms of the flush and such. If it were me I would pick the terrier. Once they get all wound up and going they won't mind the cold as much, if it means they get to do what their wired to do. And you will probably be able to find a falconer that will let you train your dog around their hawk. You may even be able to find a falconer with dogs that may let you run your dog with theirs in the feild once it gets big enough.

[Bob Dale]

Oct 19, 2008 7:45:43 GMT -5 borderhawk said:

An AS won't be able to get down into the bushes and flush the rabbit like your FT's will, but the AS will probably be more controlable in terms of the flush and such. If it were me I would pick the terrier. Once they get all wound up and going they won't mind the cold as much, if it means they get to do what their wired to do. And you will probably be able to find a falconer that will let you train your dog around their hawk. You may even be able to find a falconer with dogs that may let you run your dog with theirs in the feild once it gets big enough.

Or, you can probably find a falconer who doesn't have a dog and would welcome your dog's asistance.
I like dogs that train themselves, i.e. dogs with stong hunting instincts that kick in when put in the right situation. The Shepherd is a herding dog and the terrier is an earth dog. I would tap into the terriers instincts.

[Joby]

I'd go with a mighty mini-dachshund from established hunting lines. They'll hunt till their legs fall off, they can handle anything that you're toy foxes will be able to, AND they have a much better nose!
-Joby

[Ally]

While I think an aussie shep COULD be used in falconry, I'd go with one of the terriers. Aussies are, like Bob said, herding dogs, and don't really use their noses. If you're going to want something that will dig through the brush I'd really go with the fox. Although aussies are unbelievably smart, and they listen well (i.e. you'd be able to call them off a flush immediately)

I think, if you go the AS route I'd get a mini-aussie. I have a little mini-aussie/border collie x that would make a fabulous hawking dog IF she could learn to use her nose and range out in front of me a bit. As it is now, she sticks right by me or does the whole 'run 50 feet away, come back to check, running 50 feet ahead, come back to check' thing.

Most dogs acclimate to the birds pretty well. I have a 3 year old husky that was a shelter rescue who I thought would be downright dangerous around the bird, but he thought she was the coolest thing on earth until she bit him good, then he pretty much just left her alone. They have a pretty mutual understanding.

[ottodita]

Thanks everyone for the replies and suggestions. I'll definitely be using the terrier instead of my AS.

Now to figure out how to train the little girl to sniff out the bunnies:)

My biggest concern was for the little FT. A harris could really do some harm to the little girl. Then again, I guess a good size bunny could too:)

Thanks again,
Shane

[borderhawk]

Quoted from the American Toy Fox Terrier Club website. I'd say you've just never seen their full potential yet!

*Although easier to live with than many terriers, the Toy Fox Terrier is still a working terrier, and many of them delight in hunting and going to ground. Given the opportunity, the Toy Fox Terrier will pursue the quarry of the backyard or barnyard with diligence. Known to tree squirrels and flush out rodents, the hunt is always welcome.*

I've been intending to get that Rabbit Hawkers Dogs book, and you might want to consider getting it too. I don't see why the training for a JRT or Doxie wouldn't be the same for a FT.

[ottodita]

Borderhawk,

Thanks! I'll look for that book I need all the help I can lol. after reading your post, I got thinking about our pets we have. They all love to chase anything in the yard that move. Quick little dogs they are. Another time while I was in the US visiting my mother inlaw, I was speaking to one of her older gentleman friends and he said "If you ever train one to hunt bunnies, let me know". I did have her out today, trying to get her used to using her sniffer:) She's only 10 weeks old right now. But she's picking up I think haha.

I'm definitely using her over the AS. I've been meaning to ask others one the site on how thier terriers do in the cold snow....I'll start another thread tomorrow about it.

Thanks alot for the post, it certainly got me thinkin:)
Shane

[shadowgames]

I am just throwing in my two cents on this but I hunt with American Pit Bull Terriers and I love a dog that has the natural prey drive from the very begining with little or no training. I have real APBTs, they only weigh 30-45lbs, hog fat and these are true reps of the breed and they are a easy dog to train and love pleasing their owners. I have one that is better than if I trained her from day one in the hunting department.

I have a friend who is into the Patterdales, and he is friends with the man Booth who has pretty dominated the Patterdales since the very begining. Booth has a good understanding of the falcons also, being from the UK, many of his dogs sucessfully hunt with falcons/hawks.This breed of dog, has been performance bred and not tarnished with breeders looking to make a dollar off of them, not yet anyways. This is comparable to the JRT, but with better hunting insticts from day one, I have seen these dogs in action, very rough little suckers from going to the ground and flushing out. Very intelligent and 100% terrier to the fullest, probably one of the few breeds of dogs that can be purchased and have a high % of working stock from nearly ever litter.

Also for cold climates, rough terrian these dogs excel. Seen them hunt well below freezing and act like it was 75 degrees on a fall day. Fast, little dogs and extremely strong for dog under 20lbs. I would really like to see a breeding of them Min. Italian greyhound / Patterdale cross.

[raptrlvr]

A lot depends on the terrain you are going to be hunting in. I raised Aussies and bred them for several years. They are great companions but, I would have never used any of them for hunting. In my area, the dogs coat would be a real drawback with the amount of thorn bushes we have. Thats why I use a short haired {English Pointer}dog. Another thing to consider is wether or not your going to have to have a dog that goes in after the rabbits. The area I am in, the rabbits are running and the dog doesn't have to go in to get them. Just my opinion.

[Joby]

I have to agree with Jim, get the dog for your circumstances. I fly HHs and RTs in the midwest industrial lots. At a certain time of year the bunnies start going down the ground hog holes. So, I need a dog that can jump, track, and go to ground after the bunnies. So, I run mini-doxies from Teddy Moritz's line (bred specifically to have longer hind legs and smaller chests than stuff not from her line). I had also considered JRTs but chose the mini-doxie for their personable demeanor. If I was down south or further out west, the mini-doxie wouldn't be my first choice. So, consider the conditions you hunt in and what you've got to hunt before selecting a dog.
-Joby