also I have used all kinds of stuff for food for a RT. jacks, CTs, fox, crow, coyote, snake, quail, dove, sparrow, bobcat, badger, rats. pretty much anything that was small wild game and they did great on it. they didnt like the coyote much but the rest they eat the hell out of it. one of my RTs loved fox if there was a fox any where in the country she would kill it
I really thought that rabbit and squirrel comprised most of their diets... Thanks Dave, you gave me more to wonder about!!!
In the wild most of their diet consists of rodents. Mice and voles, etc. Starlings are excellent food. Make some traps. Just google starling traps. I use the "tipping can" style and they work great. I'll add kidneys to the list of organs to save. Rabbit kidneys and hearts make the best tidbits for hunting since they don't get mushy like pieces of rabbit meat.
Post by sublimelyoblivious on Nov 4, 2008 8:20:09 GMT -5
Wow...OK I know I read on this forum that some people thought that starlings are trash birds, etc. and you are what you eat, blah blah blah...that is awesome, because as far as I know, starlings are open year round and would really help me get that varied diet. I did NOT know an RT will take down a fox, and I haven't done that yet. As far as organs, I will just have to pay more attention to that... Dirthawker...you are an avid hunter, why is deer not on your list, would that not be a good one for tidbits? I know they cannot sustain themselves solely on deer, but as tidbits, or pick up pieces, or for training...wouldn't it be a decent food? SO if I had to list the foods: Rabbit, squirrel, starling, sparrow, crow, rats mice, some deer or beef heart, liver, kidneys.......anything else? I want the food to be natural....so I will kill it until the bird can for itself.... here's a good dumb question for you..... If my cat kills a bird, mouse, squirrel...how unsafe would it be to feed that to an RT? Or is the bacteria in their mouths not good for RT? Just wondered, my cat doesn't usually finish the kill, and I could save the carcasses....just wondered. Sounds kinda gross, and I would rather shoot or trap. Dave I will look up the starling trap..and I have already looked up bag limits and possession limits.....I just want to stock up the best I can, before I trap....just in case I am the worst trainer ever, I want to make sure the bird gets it grub on!!!
Wow...OK I know I read on this forum that some people thought that starlings are trash birds, etc. and you are what you eat, blah blah blah...
A word of caution... starling flocks are targets for pest control poisoning - projects which are never publicized. You'll never know if or which starling has been poisoned, since they can live for several days after exposure. And yes, these birds scavenge... they are indeed what they eat... and that includes trash.
I'd add muskrat to your list. Trapper friends of mine keep the pelts and give me the carcasses. GREAT food for any BOP. Deep red color, but actually quite light in density and calorie. And now and then, I'll get in a deer from our DNR, which I butcher, and I feed it to all my birds. It's a good supplement. I don't feed offal from any wild animal (parasites) - except the heart.
Post by sublimelyoblivious on Nov 4, 2008 11:05:51 GMT -5
I don't know what Offal is, but I will google it. (goog;le says guts...so you only feed heart? no lungs, liver, kidney as dave suggests? Again, we got one squirrel, and when I gutted it, I threw all of the internals out...to be honest, there are only a few organs I knew, and we had a discussion about whether we were looking at lungs or ovaries...I said lungs...but I don't think the hubby knows much about ovaries!!! he he he...anyways...I think that will come with experience...more guttin') I have called MDC and they said no one asks about starling seasons and bag limits...WTF??? I am waiting on a call back, you know how that goes!!! But the ones in my yard, are probably not a target as far as random poisoning, but no one could say for sure...I just need to add goods to the freezer, because I had been thinking I could fill it with Squirrel and Rabbit, but I forgot about the possession limit, and I guess I always thought about possession in the field, not in my freezer...so now I know, that was a dumb mistake avoided!!! But I still need more game to feed the BoP. I will definitely have some deer in the freezer in a few weeks, it'll be my first deer season, and I think that will be plentiful....BUT...I don't want to feed only lean meats, as my previous plans involved the bunnies and squirrels...etc...which are pretty athletic critters...so I am trying to figure out what else to have on hand...I don't want to run out of food before the bird is hunting...and being that I JUST passed the test, and am in the planning stages of building mews, gathering my equipment, etc....it'll be a month or better before I have a bird, and be training in cold weather, I need to know my bases are covered. Dave...I looked in the trapping threads, and have been reading all morning....the only starling stuff was the one specific thread and I didn't catch the can thing you spoke of...would it be incredibly inconvenient to ask you for a direct link...I don't wanna be a PITA...(pain in the A**)but I really didn't find it, just the regular old sparrow type traps, which is not out of the question....but I would like to make my own traps, and it will have to be simple, because I am not that bright (I'm kidding) I don't know where to hunt muskrat, but I will look up the regs and find out what type permit I will need, season, bag limit, etc....I am willing to consider any options....it is however, easier for me to trap what lives in my own yard and then make specific hunting trips for small game, larger game, fur bearers, etc.... And I have never trapped, killed foxes (dirthawker) because I think they are cute....he he he...kinda a wienie thing to say, but I like them, I have my reservations on bobcats, too....but you gotta do what you gotta do, so I would probably get over it pretty quick if given the opportunity... Thanks guys for the info...I just love making you look at old posts...naw, kidding...but it is helpful to have your experience to guide me. My sponsor has the $ to buy lots of quail, etc...but I would rather DIY ....just my style.... If I were to use any venison, would it be a good idea to use vitahawk on it, or if it was used in moderation with whole foods, would it be neccesary? Does vitahawk contain calcium? I will look that up, but reading other threads, I wonder if any meat fit for human conspumtion is lacking in calcium and needed supplement, but it didn't sound like vitahawk had enough to help...also I have reservations about dependency on synthetic minerals, supplements...I would rather feed them right to begin with than give him the equivalent of a flintstones vitamin!!!! As I stated, I am going to be in touch with MDC and will be giving them a hard time about all these regs...make sure I know what I am allowed....thanks again!
I don't know what Offal is, but I will google it. (goog;le says guts...so you only feed heart? no lungs, liver, kidney as dave suggests? Again, we got one squirrel, and when I gutted it, I threw all of the internals out...to be honest, there are only a few organs I knew, and we had a discussion about whether we were looking at lungs or ovaries...I said lungs...but I don't think the hubby knows much about ovaries!!! he he he...anyways...I think that will come with experience...more guttin')
My own understanding is that offal is the stomach, small and large intestine, and bladder. When you open something up you should see a thin skin, which I believe is the diaphram, that separates the stuff behind the ribcage from the stuff in the lower abdomen. I allways get rid of all the lower stuff and keep all the upper stuff. You probably want to find someone that can point out tapeworm cysts to you as well, so you can recognise and remove them. They seem to be a big problem around here.
this is the info on missouri muskrats...I LOVE mdc!!! I feel lucky to have such an involved conservation dept....and all the free info on their site! Unfortunately, my starling search was less productive!!!
well as for the deer meat there are 2 reasons for that. the proteins are bigger and harder for the bird to digest but can be used. also here in AZ you are only allowed 1 deer, 1 elk, 1 antelope per yr. that is if you can get drawn. I have not been drawn for deer in 7 yrs 2 times for elk in 7 yrs. and drawn for antelope 1 time in 25 yrs so when I do get that meat it goes to the family to eat not the bird. I can get more than enough food for the bird that is more suited for their smaller matabolisms. this is not to say that I have not used it in a pinch just that I dont. I also dont use beef heart.I have more than enough stuff around here than I can go get myself. I can go out any day and chase up 5-6 pack rats and whack them with a hawking stick lol.
Post by sublimelyoblivious on Nov 4, 2008 14:46:03 GMT -5
that is awesome, but it sucks about the deer hunting, etc. We can take at minimum 2 a buck and doe and are offered "bonus" tags in some counties. But the deer in SW Missouri aren't as big as what I see in magazines and on the outdoor channel...and we definitely feed the meat to the family first, but I typically have extra and a lot of my stash goes to jerky...I swear I could sustain myself for months on just my jerky!!! But like I said, I usually have plenty to spare, so I wondered how to put it to use for my redtail, as well. I figured the heart...because that is what most use of beef...and I am sure I read somewhere that someone used lean steak as tidbits, so I figured, same difference.......but should I use vitahawk on venison tidbits? I don't intend to give up a lot of my deer meat for the hawk, but I figured, it would help with the varied diet....and I wondered about using the tail or ears or random body parts for tirings or just something to tear at...etc. Honestly, I have got to talk to the sponsor, I should not be THIS confused about feeding a hawk, or I should not get one if I am. I certainly don't want to under or over feed, or feed too much of one thing. At present, I have exactly one squirrel, and that is it...that is why I am asking so many questions, I want to make sure I get it right!!!!Maybe I should just go back and hit the books....certainly can't hurt a thing...the only issue is that my sponsor thinks the best way to learn is to get a hawk....i just don't want to screw up too badly...(screw ups are inevitable, I realize) I am reading ALL the mamilian and avian threads, almost done...but there is still so many questions.....
Post by sublimelyoblivious on Nov 6, 2008 9:44:19 GMT -5
Dave, thanks for the link!! I found some really good ideas and info from that and the couple that I posted...I am formulating my plot to irradicate the starlings in my neighborhood..... NOW...did someone say that you throw those little buggers directly in the freezer, without dispatching them?? Would they even die at the temps in a freezer, or just starve to death in the cold? I am excited about the starling trap!! It looks like fun to make!!!
Twist their head around until the neck breaks and they are dead before you put them in the freezer. If you let them freeze to death they will poop all over the place in the process, making a mess of your freezer bags.
Post by sublimelyoblivious on Nov 6, 2008 14:36:44 GMT -5
Yeah, that was exactly the imagery I had in my head!!! My sponsor told me about a half dead bunny in his freezer that he had to re-dispatch!!!....I am sure I read that somewhere and I was pretty sure that they don't just die in the cold....thanks Dave! I was wondering how you even get to them in the bottom of the trap without them getting out.....and then dispatching...I will let you know how that works out...I am sure it will be a comical experience!
I don't know what Offal is, but I will google it. (goog;le says guts...so you only feed heart? no lungs, liver, kidney as dave suggests?
Nah, I leave the GI tract for the crows and foxes. I've just seen too much ick in entrails to risk it.
I have called MDC and they said no one asks about starling seasons and bag limits...WTF???
There's no season or take limits on European starlings, English sparrows, or pigeons. They're non-native and not protected species.
But the ones in my yard, are probably not a target as far as random poisoning, but no one could say for sure...
Maybe not. But ya never know... those that forage in your back yard may actually roost at the refinery 15 miles away. I found this interesting: www.esajournals.org/doi/abs/10.2307/1933740 "...In winter, California starlings aggregate in large numbers at roosts from which they disperse into the surrounding countryside to forage. Some individuals travel up to 50 miles daily to reach their feeding grounds. Other individuals disperse much shorter distances from the same roost..."
I just need to add goods to the freezer, because I had been thinking I could fill it with Squirrel and Rabbit, but I forgot about the possession limit, and I guess I always thought about possession in the field, not in my freezer...so now I know, that was a dumb mistake avoided!!!
Good point re possession limits for wild game. You can also supplement with farm-raised chickens; domestic ducks; pen-raised pheasants; culled clean racing/homing pigeons (remove head, neck, crop, feet); home-trapped mice, voles, field rats. No limits on these, and they offer a nice variety.
but I would like to make my own traps, and it will have to be simple
I bought this repeating sparrow live trap years ago. Lift the two outer lids, put a slice of bread inside on the trigger lever in each, and the trash birds can't resist. The middle collection compartment allows sparrows to enter through a one-way port. I've trapped a ton of starlings and sparrows with this. There are 'funnel' traps for starlings and pigeons which are very easy to make. See here for an example: www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page2168.html
I don't know where to hunt muskrat, but I will look up the regs and find out what type permit I will need, season, bag limit, etc....
Know any fur trappers? That's who I get mine from.
If I were to use any venison, would it be a good idea to use vitahawk on it, or if it was used in moderation with whole foods, would it be neccesary?
I mostly use Vitahawk during the molt or for rehab birds. I only feed deer occasionally, as a supplement to my regular whole-animal diet, so I don't see the need to add extra vitamins.
I wonder if any meat fit for human conspumtion is lacking in calcium and needed supplement, but it didn't sound like vitahawk had enough to help..
Just feed enough bone -- a whole-animal diet should be fine to get all vitamins and minerals. If one doesn't have enough whole animals, crush (no long splinters!) chicken leg bones and add the bone material to the meat offering. And I'd sprinkle with Vitahawk. But it's way better to feed whole critters for a properly balanced diet.