worming shots ?

[Modoc]

My dog is eating rabbits and moles, he drags them into the house half eaten, then he always gets sick for a few days, then he throws up the fowlest looking gross plie of what looks like intestines, guts and rabbit crud...yikes!!!
He gets worms everytime, i can see them hanging out his rearend. Ive already took him to petco twice in the last 6 months for worming shots.
Does anyone know if there is a limit to how many shots he can get?

[Kitana]

I would like to know what shots you are talking about?? As in Canada we don't have a dog wormer that is available in an injectable form. And how can you get a worming shot in a petstore, do they have a vet clinic there??
Usually, dogs and cats that eat raw meat should be wormed at least every 3 months.

[Modoc]

Its called a deworming shot.
Petco has a vet clinic instore on saturdays.
so if you say every 3 months, i guess my question is answered.
thanks

[Kitana]

Apr 19, 2008 12:01:05 GMT -5 Modoc said:

Its called a deworming shot.
Petco has a vet clinic instore on saturdays.
so if you say every 3 months, i guess my question is answered.
thanks

I asked if you knew what kind of wormer it contained because there is no single wormer that will destroy every type of worms. You have to know what you are trying to kill to pick up the good stuff.

[okiereddirthawker]

from what I am reading he probably as tapeworms and most of the dewormers aren't targeting tapes.. need to get a fecal done at the vet to see what he has. Don't just deworm if there are no worms

[borderhawk]

Take this with a grain of salt, but... I've had really good luck getting rid of tapeworms by simply giving Brewers Yeast & Garlic pills. It takes a little longer to get rid of them completely, but it's also good for pet in other ways too.
Also, feeding your dogs something enzymatic, like yogurt or Bene-bac, might help with the getting sick period after eating rats and rabbits.
I used to work at Petco, and they only sell one kind of over the counter med for tape worms and it's kinda spendy for some reason. The store I worked at kept it locked up with the Frontline. All the rest are for round and hook worms. Heartworm meds are the only ones you HAVE to get from a vet, all other worming meds you can buy over the counter.

[forestfalcon]

Apr 19, 2008 23:07:24 GMT -5 borderhawk said:

Take this with a grain of salt, but... I've had really good luck getting rid of tapeworms by simply giving Brewers Yeast & Garlic pills. It takes a little longer to get rid of them completely, but it's also good for pet in other ways too.
Also, feeding your dogs something enzymatic, like yogurt or Bene-bac, might help with the getting sick period after eating rats and rabbits.
I used to work at Petco, and they only sell one kind of over the counter med for tape worms and it's kinda spendy for some reason. The store I worked at kept it locked up with the Frontline. All the rest are for round and hook worms. Heartworm meds are the only ones you HAVE to get from a vet, all other worming meds you can buy over the counter.

Be careful giving your animals supplements like Brewer's Yeast. There was a big thing a few years ago about giving Brewer's yeast to dogs to help with the urine burning the grass. During this time, we saw a lot of dog's that had bladder stones...I'm not saying that the yeast was the direct cause of all these patients have stones, just the only thing in common during this time. My cat got bladder stones from a well known all natural food.
There are a few heartworm prevention medications that also prevent intestinal worms as well, (for dogs.)

[Kitana]

Apr 19, 2008 23:07:24 GMT -5 borderhawk said:

Take this with a grain of salt, but... I've had really good luck getting rid of tapeworms by simply giving Brewers Yeast & Garlic pills. It takes a little longer to get rid of them completely, but it's also good for pet in other ways too.

And take this with a grain of salt, but I don't know how many dogs I euthanized after garlic and onion poisonning. I stopped counting at 20. Oh yeah 2 or 3 of them pulled through with a blood transfusion and over 4000$ vet fees when I was at vet school...

About garlic as a wormer: when I was studying vet medicine, a renowned horse breeder (warmbloods)came to us for a problems in his foals and yearlings, they didn't grew well. After investigating, we did a stoll analysis and found out the most extremely elevated egg count that had ever been seen at the faculty! This guy wormed his horses monthly with garlic. The faculty's parasitologist explained us that if you put garlic oil directly on a worm, it will die, so many people believe garlic is a wormer. But it's false: once absorbed orally, it looses its antiparasitic activity completely. And can be fatal to most mammals.

[forestfalcon]

That's funny that you would say that, Kitana. I worked with another vet tech, who was mostly large animal, and she tried to convince me that garlic was a good anti-parasitic. I was taking parasitology courses at the time, so all I could do was roll my eyes at her.

I guess the moral is with natural supplements, or any medication for that matter, is to consult a vet before giving them to your animals. There are a lot of things out there made for pets that can really cause some damage. I was looking at a can of pet food a while back and onions were one of the ingredients! ah...good ol' heinz bodies.

Oh, and I just wanted to add, the only injectable wormer I know of for small animal is Ivermectin. There are many out there for large animal...

[Kitana]

Apr 20, 2008 11:20:11 GMT -5 forestfalcon said:

Oh, and I just wanted to add, the only injectable wormer I know of for small animal is Ivermectin. There are many out there for large animal...

So, you are a vet tech? It's breathtaking how many wrong things we can hear in a day of work! lol And yes, some come from vet techs, and some come from vets. I've always said that as long as you have the passing grades, you can graduate, but it still means that you didn't master 40% of the stuff you had to learn... It frightens me when I think it is the same with human physicians... And there is no way to know who passed with 80+% and who passed with a 60%...

Back to wormers: if I get it, a worming shot will never get rid of the tapeworms if it is only ivermectin that is available on that form? No wonder the dog always has worms!

[borderhawk]

I had never really heard of garlic being good for worms except in really high, unsafe, doses. I had bought a bottle of Brewers Yeast that happened to have garlic in it because I had heard it was supposed to be good for skin and coat and thought I'd test it out, and within a week the tapeworms were gone. So the next pet I got that had tapeworms I tried it and it worked again. I'm horrible at keeping consistant with pills so I never got to see the skin and coat results. Since then I've been working at either one of two vet hospital or Petco and just got the worm meds from work so I haven't used it since.
I wouldn't be suprised if the animals with onion and garlic poisoning probably had gotten into actually pieces of them. I've tried raw garlic once, that stuff'll eat your insides out.

[Kitana]

Apr 20, 2008 18:53:45 GMT -5 borderhawk said:

I wouldn't be suprised if the animals with onion and garlic poisoning probably had gotten into actually pieces of them. I've tried raw garlic once, that stuff'll eat your insides out.

It would be great news for everyone if onion and garlic poisonning happened at high doses, but unfortunetalyr it's not the case. This poisonning is called an idiosyncrasic reaction, which means that there are no minimal doses or safe doses, it can happen at any dose. And it does not happens every time the animal eats them, they can be safe for years and then eat a small drop and die, or die the first time they eat it. What happens is a kind of chain reaction that destroys red blood cells very fast, and once it is started it is very hard to stop. Quantities of onions/garlic or similar plant needed to start the trouble is minime: often as small as a flavoring in baby food or dog food. So I'm pleased that you didn't saw any tapeworms after giving garlic and your animal slived through this to tell the tale, but then again did you do a fecal analysis?

[forestfalcon]

Yea, been a vet tech now for almost 9 years. yeesh!
I really think the dumbest thing I've heard someone say, was from a vet I currently work with, (who by the way, says she works/worked with birds,) who, in a matter-of-fact kind of way, informed me that birds can spontaneously change their own sex. I agree, a lot of random things come out of the mouths of people.

-BTW, the only reported case of a bird changing it's sex was a chicken, and the report came from India.

[borderhawk]

Apr 20, 2008 21:45:16 GMT -5 Kitana said:

This poisonning is called an idiosyncrasic reaction, which means that there are no minimal doses or safe doses, it can happen at any dose. And it does not happens every time the animal eats them, they can be safe for years and then eat a small drop and die, or die the first time they eat it.

I've actually never seen or heard of that, but then it sounds like something that could easily not be recognised for what it is. And I'm sure you've been working in vets longer than I have.

It's amazing the ideas people have in their heads about animals and the way the pet supply market trys to profit off of it. I find it difficult to believe that they still sell grit for parrots.

[Modoc]

Maybe the forum vets can help..
as you know my dog Mick loves to catch and eat rabbits..
this morning about 5am i was awoken to mick whimpering and crying at the side of my bed, he was shaking and unable to move very well.
I picked him up to lay him on the bed next to me and he was in lots of pain, especially in the stomach area. I monitered him all morning and tried to get him to drink,, he wouldnt drink but he would eat his dog snacks.. I brought him outside to see if he could shake it off with some fresh air but he crawled under the deck and wouldnt come out... I decided to take him to the vet.
the vet hospital gave him xrays and gave him something for the pain.
Then the tech came in and gave me an estimate of 816 dollars saying they wanted to keep him overnight and do a bunch of treatments:

here is the treatments:
Fecal Oval/parasites+giardia ELISA-idexx
IV Catheter
Blood Panel K9/feline
CBC
add-on urinalysis
iNTAVINOUS fLUIDS initial liter
24hr Nurse/hospital fee
Hospitialization w/3-4 meds
Droncit k9 31-60#
meds to go
at a cost of $816.00

I agreed i love my dog and would do anything.
So i left him there and came home... when i got home i searched around the yard for any evidence of what he could have ate, and found a rotten dead rabbit with maggots that he was absolutely chewing on last night.

I called the vet and told her what i found,, she hasnt gotten back to me yet.

I kinda feel like maybe im being taken advantage of...that is a lot of money for a bad stomach ache.. i mean hes been sick before and it passes.. but his pain was worse this time...so i didnt want to take any chances.
what do you guys think?

poor little mick on the left