Post by birdguy888 on Oct 26, 2006 14:44:37 GMT -5
I'm still in legal mitigations. I have an attorney that used to be an attorney for the Attorney Generals office and he has friends that are still in the AG's office and one at the U.S. Supreme Court. I'm supposed to hear from that guy today (Oct. 26th). It turns out that even though it was my employee that had the eagle feathers, I was also cited because I'm the business owner and the feathers were in the deisplay case that he was using. I guess I can deal with that and paying a fine. The biggest reason for the attorneys and court is to secure my State COR and Federal Permit so that once the fine is paid they will not automatically consider that a plea of guilty and restrict, suspend or revoke my licenses. On the other hand it has been made very clear that if the US Attorney doesn't write a letter stating that my licenses are safe and will not be restricted, suspended or revoked, I am prepared to take the issue to Federal Court before a jury!
Post by birdguy888 on Oct 28, 2006 19:12:52 GMT -5
Well, the agent that came told my attorney he would recommend the suspension of my licenses. My attorney talked to the US attorney and he said he would talk to the agent and ask him to back off so I guess we'll see what happens. As for right this minute I believe I'll go ahead and file suit againt the agent and USFWS in Federal Court! I have until November 30th to decided if I want to file the suit.
Do it!!! It does no specifically state anywhere in the regs about only having feathers for the birds on your permits. This "agent" is full of SH!@t and looking for someone to burn. I'll do whatever you need me to Eddie. They shouldn't be able to interperate the law as they see fit. GOOD LUCK!!!!
Post by birdguy888 on Oct 29, 2006 21:48:08 GMT -5
That's exactly what I think. The biggest issue is the attorney fees. I'm hoping I can swing a deal. The attorney initially stated he would need a $2,500 retainer. Hopefully if it comes to a suit I can get him to lower that and/or take payments cause with all my other bills I cannot afford a retainer like that and NAFA attorneys refused to help!!! Isn't that ironic? And NAFA wonders why falconers are no longer supporting the organization! This si the reason why. I need a good attorney that know the falconry laws and regulations and those that do know won't help!
Post by birdguy888 on Nov 16, 2006 15:27:09 GMT -5
Well, I'm still in litigation over this issue. I had a meeting with my attorney again today and we tried to talk to the U.S. Attorney but only got his voice mail so basically we're waiting for a return call. In the corrispondance with my attorney and the U.S. Attorney it sounds like whatever I do they will recommend that my state COR and federal permit will be safe from restrictions, suspension or revokation so that is good. However I'm not getting my hopes up until I have it in writing from the U.S. Attorney!
Post by birdguy888 on Nov 28, 2006 19:46:57 GMT -5
Here's another update. I'm going to try and nip this right in the bud! I have contacted the Director of the Division of Natural Resources who is the "boss" of the Division of Wildlife Resources and its Officers for the the State of Utah. I explained the circumstances and how all the Officers involved have interprited the laws they way they seen fit in order to "put another notch on their citation belt." I've asked for a direct, face-to-face meeting with him and his constituents over the issue and the way the falconry laws are written. Apparently he is having a meeting with the rehabber here over some legal issues she has ran into with these officers too this week. Three officers are involved in her case while four officers and one judge are involved in my case. As usual I'll keep everyone posed on what happens. This will either be an easily resolved issue or will turn into one hell of a court battle to which I will involve the media and press!
this kind of crap just makes me want to tap someone in the head with a hammer.
I mean its just some stupid bird feathers for gods sake, its not like its crystal meth!
What are you suppose to do with old feathers? throw them in the bushes? or turn them in to local authorities where they are documented and disposed of in a landfill? I mean is that how stupid and ridiculous our gov is becoming.
If you have feathers from a bird that died and you must still have the bird in possession to legally have those feathers. What if you freeze the bird. then when they ask why you have those feathers still, you can pull out a frozen bird and say "I still have him in possession"
What if you have feathers from a previous RT and are using them to imp a new RT? will they do DNA testing to see if they match? I mean come on!!!!!!!!!!
Its just a bird feather!!!!!!!!!
I hope that agent gets a tumor!!!! lol
Are they really going to waste tax dollars going door to door to make sure we dont possess old dumbass bird feathers. I would think a judge would laugh this out of court.
good luck Eddie, and im sorry you have to go through this ridiculous BS. Of all the problems in the world they picked you to bother with this load of crap
It is a joke, I agree! The agent sais that if you have extra feathers you are supposed to take them to the local wildlife office and turn them in for proper disposal. Once again, there is no such law in the falconry proclomation or the Federal CFR's. All I know is the officers involved have been made aware of my possible law suit against them by the Director of the DNR which is the governing agency over the Division of Wildlife Resources. Well see what happens.
Think your imping feathers are legal under your falconry permits? Think again! I was told I would be receiving a citation in the mail for the illegal possession of falconry feathers! Yep, you read that right! I got in an argument with a federal agent and when I started yelling the State Officer started walking away.
I think a moral of the story is also arguing or yelling at a Fish and game officers for any reason may cause serious repercussions.
None of us would ever flip off a police officer while talking to him, or pulled over. Reasons are, they know the laws better then anyone else since they are sopose to enforce them. For good or for their own personal enjoyment.
Eddie, I wanted to bring up this point because I'm not sure anyone else did. I'm not targeting you specifically.
Post by dirthawker on Jan 13, 2007 17:35:07 GMT -5
actually they don't really know all the rules regs and laws all the time last year they try ed to take my red-tail because they said that I had to many birds. I released a bird in Aug. got a new one in Oct lost it to a GHO and got a new one in Nov. now in the regs you get 1 bird in a 12 month period and one replacement. they said that the released bird counted on this year. I argued politely my point with them and they dropped it but they don't always know it all. I still get along with the game and fish officers and even take them hawking from time to time. just know your laws as they pertain to you and your right don't give them attitude treat them as old friends and usually you will be fine. friends get into arguments from time to time but you don't go out of your way to be rude to them
Post by birdguy888 on Jan 13, 2007 19:46:37 GMT -5
You would think differently if you had to deal with these ones. They are arseholes and none of them like the sport of falconry and think the birds should be off limits to everyone! I have sent some people to the DWR office in the last 8 months or so to get the apprentice falcony packet to learn the sport and they will not give them the packet and have told them all it is too demanding and highly regulated and don't think they are suited for the sport. These are the type of people I have to deal with here. The only nice thing I ever say to them is "see you in court". So far it has not came to that but my attorney has been retained and the officers were informed if they step out of line their asses will be in court immediately.
They really are pricks here. I have met maybe 2 that were decent. I had to explain to the person that passed my mew and equip what it all was. Then he tried to tell me it wasnt good enough. They reallt do not support it at all in Utah!!! Get um for all of us Eddie!!!