I've just read through this thread, and I'm appalled, really. .. I have a few cooper feathers that I've had since I was twelve, and tons of others, though not from BOP, but now I'm paranoid.
Good luck Eddie, I really hope that things get worked out fairly.
It really does suck, doesn't it? According to the stipulations in 50CFR, a falconre need not have broken any laws to have his permit revoked. The Fedz need not even show up in court- they don't give a rip whether they win in court or not, because they don't have to win in court to acheive their goals. The underlying problem is that posession of a raptor is seen as a priviledge, not a right. Anyone who does not view raptors as a rightfully harvested resource will not be able to mount a substantive legal, (or philosophical) defense of the sport. The only legal hope we have is to get the Fedz to state their case in writing, and use something like the 14th Ammendement to show discimination. Everything else is just so much caterwauling.
Post by Master Yarak on Jun 5, 2006 22:26:28 GMT -5
Many things in our society are privileges. We have some rights but t hey should not be confused with privileges. I do consider it a privilege to drive to hunt and fish to vote and to keep a raptor. If WE as falconers all had a very clear understanding of the regulations governing our sport everyone involved would be better off. The problem really lies in the ambiguity of the laws. The laws should be written in a way a 12 year old apprentice can interpret them correctly. As long as the laws require lawyers to understand them WE are all at risk of them being interpreted against US. We all wanted to do this.I think most even want to do this at the highest possible level. Therefore WE do not lack the motivation to obey WE only lack the understanding of what it is they want from us. That seems to change like the weather. Maybe one day in the not-so distant future that won't be the case any longer, and they will write the laws in way that we can all understand and agree on. Maybe... Yarak
Last Edit: Jun 6, 2006 8:39:23 GMT -5 by Master Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
It is odd how they word things. For example this is take directly from the current Utah Proclomation on Legal Birds section (1)(a)Eyasses........may be taken from May 13, unless May 13 is a Sunday, in which case the season shall begin the following day through July 15 and during the third weekend in July
Now that is just stupid! You can take an eyass up until July 15 and then you cannot take one until the 3rd weekend! OK everyone, look at your calendar......July 15th is the end date of the eyass taking season BUT July 15th IS the 3rd weekend!
Now that tells me that since it states you CAN take an eyass the 3rd weekend, that would also include Sunday, richt? But it also states in the exact same paragraph that the season ends on July 15th, the 3rd weekend! So what is a falconer to do. This looks like a deliberately written trap to me!
Post by Talons_falconry on Jun 6, 2006 0:13:28 GMT -5
You know how many cowboys and farmers I see around here with great horned owl feathers in their hat bands and trucks etc... and they are going after the guys that actually have a permit and/or license to legally have them or other birds feathers. In fact we grew up picking up owl feathers off our lawn as we have a few pairs of owl that nest in my parents trees. Every time we would pick one up my dad would say you know your a sick bird (ill-eagle) don't you? Yeah but they look so nice. Anyway they should be going after the people who have NO right to posess the feathers instaed of the one that use them for imping.
That's a very good point. People are always getting possession fines here in my area for that same reason. Most of them have the feathers hanging from their rear view mirror or a raptor foot holding a crystal.
As long as the laws require lawyers to understand them WE are all at risk of them being interpreted against US. Yarak
That's very true. As I'm getting older, I'm realizing why my grandfather wanted me to get a law degree. It's the only way to defend yourself and your family today.. I may yet. It maybe a practical thing to go along with the falconry.
Gyre
Ken to wa kokoro nari. Kokorotadashi kareba sono ken tadashi kokoro tadashi. Karazareba sono ken mata tadashi karazu. Ken O manaban to suru mono wa subekaraku sono kokoro manabe. Poem of KenZen Dojo: The Sword is the Mind
LOL My IQ isn't big enough for a law degree. It is only 120! LOL Lawyers and Dr.'s are up near the 160. I'll stick the piercing people, falconry and raising the parrots! LMAO
We've had a lawyer in the family four generations running, and my grandfather stressed that it was the easiest doctorate to get. My only qualm is I don't want to stay in school until I'm thirty! .. My one and only doctorate is waiting in literature,
Ken to wa kokoro nari. Kokorotadashi kareba sono ken tadashi kokoro tadashi. Karazareba sono ken mata tadashi karazu. Ken O manaban to suru mono wa subekaraku sono kokoro manabe. Poem of KenZen Dojo: The Sword is the Mind
My daughter is 23 and is starting law school in August at the U of Virginia. Law School is 3 years, so she will be 26 or 27 by the time she takes the bar exam.
To add to what raptrlvr said I got a buddie who's a third year law student as ASU to look over the laws and he agreed that it's pretty cut and dry and that it seems that the agents in question are probably abusing their power slightly. He also said the following which I thought was true:
"On its face, it seems that falconers are a group of people who are held up to very high standards, make great efforts to meet those standards, and yet the government thinks they are all good for nothing."
Just thought that it was a very true statement from someone who has no real contact with this sport other than via myself and this list.
Hopefully when he's out of law school he can be a falconer's advocate!
That's a great quote. Having a very open mind and a mouth to match (LOL) I have told many of my friends about this that have no interest in falconry or a couple that are terrified of birds. Even they agree that what happened is rediculous. All have said close to the same thing....."you didn't put the feathers in the case, you obviously didn't kill the bird for the feathers and they are harassing you because your an easy target because of your current and past license". I absolutely agree with them. All I am is another notch on that damn agents belt! Little does he know that I'm not a notch in it, I'm going to cut it off of him!
My friend's mother went back to law school at 47! with only a GED to boot. If she can do it, anyone can.
Ken to wa kokoro nari. Kokorotadashi kareba sono ken tadashi kokoro tadashi. Karazareba sono ken mata tadashi karazu. Ken O manaban to suru mono wa subekaraku sono kokoro manabe. Poem of KenZen Dojo: The Sword is the Mind