The whole high tie point seems like it would run the leash right through the tail feathers.
From the perch description: "In fact, the leash will pass through the bird's tail. "
And Tim writes: "If they are on the ground and bate foward, the leash can, and does go through the train sometimes, but does not harm the feathers beyond "mussing them up", as long as the swivel is not going through.(leash extender is key)."
I've seen and had some very vigorous baters. How much 'mussing' before those feathers are frayed, bent, and/or broken? Doesn't sound like much of a 'tail saver' to me. IMO, the leash extender is essential no matter what perch is used. I have them on all my birds.
The leg thing I understand because as the bird jumps the bird would raise up and take some of the energy away from the legs.
Except that not all birds 'raise up' during a bate. Many bate hard horizontally - straight out. The bird can (and does) wind up hitting the ground flat on its keel - its feet yanked out from under it - with a tie ring mounted high. I've seen it too many times.
Nope. It doesn't matter to me which 'pioneer' falconer's name is on it. I'll stick with rotating rings and blocks - their tie rings resting on their base plates on the ground.
Thanks, Eragon, for the link to the perching surface. Never heard of it before. Interesting (and expensive).
Post by basenjishunt on Aug 10, 2008 11:43:05 GMT -5
Like I've said before, people will determine that this perch does not work, or breaks tail feathers, without ever seeing one in action. As far as a bird bating in a straight line, without any arc??? Do you really believe that?-Tim
Post by basenjishunt on Aug 14, 2008 7:34:08 GMT -5
I think physics say different....I've SEEN with my own eyes that the Mengs work as advertised. If you tie birds so they land on their keel, then your not tethereing them right. I have never SEEN a bird land on it's keel bating from a Meng perch. And I assume that you have never SEEN a Meng perch workm or really understand it beyond an opinion not backed up by any facts....
Some people like them, some people don't. If the people that like them had problems with the perches my guess would be they wouldn't be using them... ;D
So the fact they are still being used means that they must work for some people. Are they better then the ol' traditional bow perch? That's for the individual falconer to decide. I've seen bow perches where the leash was too long that would cause feather and tarsus damage too. So my guess is that with any perch operator error plays the biggest role in a healthy bird.
“Attitude is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than what people do or say. It is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill.”
And according to the known laws of physics, the bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly. Yet I've SEEN them fly.
I've SEEN with my own eyes that the Mengs work as advertised. If you tie birds so they land on their keel, then your not tethereing them right. I have never SEEN a bird land on it's keel bating from a Meng perch.
Happy to hear it. And I'm happy that you're happy with the Mengs perch. Does the perch come with user instructions regarding what length of leash to use?
And I assume that you have never SEEN a Meng perch workm or really understand it beyond an opinion not backed up by any facts....
Post by dirthawker on Aug 14, 2008 18:13:11 GMT -5
my coops bates strait out all the time. as for it working on a HH you can do allot to a HHs feathers they are tough to break. I myself prefer to make it so the birds tail is touched as lil as possible. because my lil bate master coop can trash tail feathers pretty quickly.
also you dont have to get all defensive because we dont like your perch. there are people that dont like some of my stuff like using synthetic jesses but it works well for me.
Last Edit: Aug 14, 2008 18:19:07 GMT -5 by dirthawker
The bumble bee thing says that they do not have the correct wing to weight ratio, but that is not taking into account their relation to air density at their size. They would not be able to fly if they were scaled up to the size of a hawk. Spiders wouldn't be able stand if they were scaled up to the size of a dog. At the size of a bumble bee air has the density of milk. This is why they can fly with those little wings and spiders can stand with their long under muscled legs. Air density is relative to the size of the object.
Life is hard, it's harder when your stupid. - John Wayne
Same here. And just like I described... BAM!...she launches straight out!
I myself prefer to make it so the birds tail is touched as lil as possible. because my lil bate master coop can trash tail feathers pretty quickly.
Seems all it takes is one touch for a Coops, and sure nuf, a broken feather. I HATE imping, and will do whatever to avoid breakage.
My Coops, Izzy (still pushing down new tail feathers).
also you dont have to get all defensive because we dont like your perch. there are people that dont like some of my stuff like using synthetic jesses but it works well for me.
My motto... "to each his own". Frankly, it's not the perch itself I don't like... but the tie ring being mounted up high. I've seen tie offs on rotating ring perches that were fastened on the ring instead of the spike, and I don't like them either. I'm pretty particular (persnickity) about my hawk furniture.
The bumble bee thing says that they do not have the correct wing to weight ratio, but that is not taking into account their relation to air density at their size. They would not be able to fly if they were scaled up to the size of a hawk. Spiders wouldn't be able stand if they were scaled up to the size of a dog. At the size of a bumble bee air has the density of milk. This is why they can fly with those little wings and spiders can stand with their long under muscled legs. Air density is relative to the size of the object.
Thanks for the explanation. My density is relative to the complexity of the subject. ;D
Post by basenjishunt on Aug 15, 2008 7:20:45 GMT -5
Hey Dirthawker, I don't care if you don't like the perch. I just don't like it when someone explains how it doesn't work without ever seeing it. A different opinion is fine, just don't lay it out for me about how it can't work.
" the world is obvoiusly flat. I don't have to sail off the edge to know it"......
Post by basenjishunt on Aug 15, 2008 7:52:47 GMT -5
I will "take a deep breath at this time" ;D
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the Meng. Alot of people like and respect Lydia Ash's website, www.themodernapprentice.com/ People refer to it, and point people there all the time. She uses these perches extensively. So if anyone is interested in finding out more about them, she has used them for many years, and can probably explain them better than I....Regards,Tim
Post by dirthawker on Aug 15, 2008 12:52:06 GMT -5
nice looking crazy coop lol. I aree I have seen the ring perches with the ring on the perch and not on the spike and I dont like them either. personal pref I guess
Hey Dirthawker, I don't care if you don't like the perch. I just don't like it when someone explains how it doesn't work without ever seeing it. A different opinion is fine, just don't lay it out for me about how it can't work.
" the world is obvoiusly flat. I don't have to sail off the edge to know it"......
I have tried the perch and seen it work had good luck with it on some birds and bad so it depends on the bird. I quit using it when I had a stubborn hen RT that took her tail down to 3" because of the bating and the leash. so if you want to really get in to a pissing match on this you can take it to the PMs. Linda ash may use them and many others and have good luck with them but that doesn't mean that they are the greatest thing in the world. most have tried to be cordial and explain there view on this in a polite way but you have just got agitated and taken it up a notch because you are thinking they are attacking you.