I got some for Christmas because I put it on my list. Why I'm not sure but anyway I have some. I can't find any guys around here who use it or even think it's worth it. They say if you feed your bird whole carcass diet like you're supposed to they get all the vitamins they need. I cannot argue with that. I will keep mine on hand of course and there may be a time when it will be necessary, perhaps in a rehab situation I don't know but for now I'm not using it.
We use it for all the raptors we get at the shelter to rehab on every meal they get. i have no idea about for falconry birds though most of the birds that come in are in bad condition so they need the vitamins but we do keep feeding it to them after they regain health until release
I got some for Christmas because I put it on my list. Why I'm not sure but anyway I have some. I can't find any guys around here who use it or even think it's worth it. They say if you feed your bird whole carcass diet like you're supposed to they get all the vitamins they need. I cannot argue with that. I will keep mine on hand of course and there may be a time when it will be necessary, perhaps in a rehab situation I don't know but for now I'm not using it.
i agree with that whole carcass diet deal also, but i mainly want it for times like now, and also, i find it hard at time to turn intestines and such into tidbits ;-)
truthfully, when feeding jack, or rabbit for tid bits, its hard to get that whole prey diet.
-matt
PS, seriously, dude, that sh$t smells amazing... lol
Post by Falcon Boy on Jan 18, 2008 18:33:27 GMT -5
Who is to say how much vitamins and minerals a bird needs? Is it really safe to dose 100+% of daily vitamins and minerals with supplements, when your bird should already be eating a varied and healthy diet? Excess is not good. I know people say they just piss it out like humans do. Maybe so, but not all vitamins and minerals work that way to my understanding. How do we know how much of each vitamin and mineral bird needs each day? Who says a gyr needs as much vitamin A as a goshawk? Does a redtail need as much vitamin D as a peregrine? Does a kestrel need as much calcium as a ferruginous?
Food for thought.
Last Edit: Jan 18, 2008 18:34:01 GMT -5 by Falcon Boy
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
Post by dirthawker on Jan 18, 2008 19:40:46 GMT -5
I only use it during the molt and half the dose that it says and cut that for the size of the bird. I have found that the feathers come in a bit nicer and have fewer problems with them over the hunting season. as far as the whole carcass thing I feed the whole carcass just not all at one time but the bird will get the whole thing. other than intestines but none of my birds will eat them any ways. but you are right FB most birds will get all they need with no problems
Excess of a particular vitamin or mineral can pose risks as serious to health as a deficiency of that nutrient. Nutrients are interrelated and an excess of one nutrient can upset the balance the body requires of other nutrients
It refers to humans but I don't see why birds would be different other than the dosage.
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
I used to feed Vitahawk mostly on pieces of cottontail and jack (my bird also gets quail and mice). I didn't give it everyday but did give it in the recommended dose. I found I had to cope my bird (his talons especially would get long and too thick near the point) A LOT so I decided to stop using it. I didn't change his diet other than that and I haven't coped his talons since. Just an observation.
I use it too. FB is right in one of his earlier post. Some vitamins are water soluble and some are lipid soluble. The lipid soluble vitamins tend to buildup in the system and can cause some harm. But this is unlikely if given in recommended doses. A veterinarian friend of mine, also a falconer, told me that one a day silver would be just as good as vitahawk, and a helluva lot cheaper. As far as the whole food diet thing goes, the same to be said of us.
Last Edit: Apr 3, 2008 19:22:36 GMT -5 by Bob Dale
I just wonder what the birds do in the wild without the vitahawk. I don't use any supplements and just make sure the birds get whole body carcas and try to vary their food a little.
Just because they are alive in the wild doesnt mean they have all the vitamins and minerals they need though they could have deficences of some and excess of others. I would think it all depends on how much they can vary their diet themselves in the wild. i dont know though but they do get to much lead and mercury sometimes so wouldnt that suggest that they get to much of others and since not all birds die of those two poisons wouldnt that lead you to believe they dont get to much of things sometimes too?
Could be. I just don't feed them anything that they don't get in the wild. I don't think vitahawk is the cure to it all and I have birds that have lived for years in captivity without it. I guess it comes down to what you want to give the bird.
Remember that raptors in the wild get bugs, worms, grasshoppers, small snakes and lots of things besides the primary diet that have other minerals and nutrients in them. I do not believe I can feed a perfect diet and wish the best for my bird so I include vitamin and mineral supplements. They also get minerals from the different waters they drink and I am sure there are none in our city water. JMHO
Post by Falcon Boy on May 25, 2008 12:22:18 GMT -5
So, once again i ask, how do you know these supplements provide the amounts needed in every specific bird, and how do you know you're not overdosing, or are you [nobody specific] just following the crowd because these things are "supposed" to be good for them?
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.