Thats what i was getting at, if you fly your bird and hunt many times a week then the prey species and terrain will dictate what muscles get worked out on the bird. Therefore jump ups will not be nescessary.. On the other hand jump ups can be helpful in certain situtations,,like prolonged bad weather, or a recovering bird not quite ready for free flights..etc.. but adding weights just doesnt seem right to me. IMO.
Amen to that Rage!! If I want to get my bird exercise, I take it hunting, especially squirrel hawking. Nothing will muscle up a squirrel like a couple of weeks of straight out squirrel hawking.
Joby's birds are so bad that he's out muscleing up squirrels. ;D
Post by Master Yarak on Jan 9, 2008 14:09:10 GMT -5
I have had a few discussion on the IFF about fitness training. Some of the hard core falconers in the UK use drag lines. It is my understanding that they are basically a heavy creance. The line pays out gradually the further the bird flies. They keep the distances short at first the over time call the bird further and further. This gentlemen flew a Golden and claimed a respectable head count.
I have had others tell me that just the extra 2.01 ozs of chaps and bells is too much strain and that the extra weight slows her down even more. I know that weight is crucial when considering the dynamics of flight. If I were pursuing feathered quarry regularly I would obviously not need them.
I will reiterate what others have said. Their is no substitute for hunting. I have never seen a fitness deficiency in my bird. She also will not do jump ups unless she is at weight. If she is at weight I am hunting her. I will not use weights. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
I have a 6' piece of surgical tubing about 5/16" inside diameter that is filled with steel shot. Total weight is 12 oz. My sponsor gave it to me last year to use for getting my bird in shape before releasing her. Attached to the clip on the jesses as the bird does jump ups the weight increases as the height increases. Do you really think the muscle groups of these birds is so unique that flying level vs. flying up makes a difference as to which group is being strengthened? Then there is the added benefit of working the leg muscles which will help in holding prey and I'm sure in quickness. Hunting a lot is the best way to keep a bird fit but it seems there could be times when jump-ups with weights can be helpful.
I have had falconers tell me that they notice the difference in the performance of their birds after doing these excercises. Some say it makes the bird faster. I personally don't believe any of that. the bird may be performing better, but, its because the bird is getting into the routine of the falconer not the jump ups or restrained persuits. I watched a falconer doing the restrained stuff and I wonder what he was teaching the bird. Throwing the food out and then holding the bird back while it attempted to fly towards the food. That falconer never caught a thing with that bird and now someone else has the bird trying to straighten out the mess this guy created. I will never do those crazy things and just keep flying my birds.
I read your response FB. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT On the surface your theory makes sense but you can't equate critters with people. There are ants that carry 50 times their body weight and beetles up to 850 times their weight. The launcher leash, (and BTW your link was the first time I knew it was even an item that was commercially available) is a gradual increasing weight as the bird gains height. When I did it with my bird, and that was only 3 sessions, she had no problem with it. The sudden stress just isn't there. When you see these RT's crash head first into briars 6' high at 20 miles an hour (that's just a guess, could be higher) or slam a bunny in a stoop so hard it blows the bowels out of the skin, or hear one hit the ground when missing, I seriously doubt that a 12 ounce rubber tube raised gradually will hurt the bird in any way.
I admit hunting is the best way to keep a bird in shape, at least the way we hunt them. The wild birds don't like to expend extra energy if at all possible. It's like Joe Factory worker vs. a pro athlete. Joe Factory worker (wild bird) leaves the couch, (pole) to go to the cupboard (ground) to get a bag of chips (mouse). Then he walks back to the couch.
The athlete (falconry bird) works out (jump ups with or without launcher leash)and builds stamina, and then goes out and runs a marathon (hunts with his falconer for 4 hours)
In the Fire Dept we add weight to ourselves when we run steps, etc. Take two firefighters and have one of them run stairs without weight and one run stairs with some weight. After a week which one will be in better shape???
These are just random musings but you all seem to be jumping the NO WEIGHTS band wagon like it's a plague. My homemade launcher leash hangs on my wall and has hung there since last August and it's very possible it will never get used again but if the need were to arise I'd use it until some solid proof comes out that says it's a bad thing to do.
Post by Master Yarak on Jan 10, 2008 16:31:24 GMT -5
dlanting said:
These are just random musings but you all seem to be jumping the NO WEIGHTS band wagon like it's a plague. My homemade launcher leash hangs on my wall and has hung there since last August and it's very possible it will never get used again but if the need were to arise I'd use it until some solid proof comes out that says it's a bad thing to do.
IMHO ;D
For the record I do value your opinion and yes, you make some fine points. I am uncertain of the true risks involved in using weights. I will refer back to my mantra "prevention". Using common sense and good judgment may "prevent" injury. For me literally it would have to be a "NEED" before I would put weights in a excersize program. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
Exactly Yarak, a need as in after time off from an injury or to accelerate getting in shape after the moult. Just like running backs in football will run in a pool or hockey players skate around the rink with a parachute tied to their back. I'm not necessarily condoning the launcher leash. Don't get me wrong. Just trying to point out how little stress it actually does put on the birds legs. IMO that part is a non issue. Now if you'll excuse me, there is a bag of chips waiting for me in the cupboard for during the hockey game tonight. ;D
Post by dirthawker on Jan 10, 2008 16:57:44 GMT -5
well I will add just a few things. FB the birds do carry weight in there feet to get to a better place to eat it. I don't see the need for the leash take it hunting or just do some creance flying. even the out of shape bird just out of the molt doesn't take much time to get into shape with hunting. the way that I start is fly every day till the bird catches something (worth catching) crop up and do over when the bird gets back down to weight. dink only took a week or so to get back into the hang of the game. t leash it my opinion is just a useless trinket but that is just my opinion
I am just too busy flying my birds to even consider the weight training thing. I would rather put my bird on the creance and fly it back and forth to the glove than to do the weight training thing. In the wild they build the muscle they need by flying, not lifting weights
Post by dirthawker on Jan 11, 2008 13:22:07 GMT -5
FB I guess I do have to agree with you on that one didn't think of it that way. I guess you could teach the bird to carry 1lb weights to you for food LOL just an alternative to the leash. but as stated just fly the bird it doesn't take that long to get them in shape.
Joe Factory worker vs, pro athlete digging fence holes - I will bet on a factory worker. Bird weight trained vs. one hunted daily to catch a rabbit - I will go for the second.We train our birds to follow and active hunt and when they catch we go for multiple.This is more then they do in the nature.My 2c. Goran