Squirrel bite

[Deleted]

Cabby took a nasty bite today. It's in the webbing between the 2nd and 3rd toe on her left foot. It gaps open when she just stands there. It looks to me like it couldn't possibly ever heal that way. You can look down inside and see the other tissue. I cleaned it out real good and tried to super glue it but it didn't hold. There is also a smaller looking wound on the inside of the left ankle. She seems to be reluctant to use it because when I just fed her a couple of mice she swallowed them whole and usually she stands on them and tears them apart. She only grabbed it with her right foot. The toes all move and she does fine jumping to the scale, etc. My sponsor is gone until the weekend. I'm wondering if I need to take a half day vacation tomorrow and go see the vet. Any thoughts?

Little bastards!

[Falcon Boy]

If your very worried about it, better safe than sorry IMHO

[Tiercel78]

Can she grip with it?
My birds will often favor that foot a little bit after a bite and I don't blame them it's sore.
I'd see what she is doing with it tomorrow it's going to be sore so if she can swallow the food she will. So if you want to see if she is using with food you need to give her something that she has to use that foot with. Shoot throw down a lure that should tell you right away. As long as she is griping and the wound doesn't get infected then I would just keep it clean. Thing is that these birds don't scab and seal up as fast a humans. I usually wash with soap and toothbrush,put a ointment on the first night and then leave it alone. After the scab forms or it seals up then you can use it more often. It may bruise a little and look a little greeny and might be a tad swollen. The foot will be a little warmer than the good foot but shouldn't be hot. Hot means infection but just remember that if the bird has it's foot tucked it will be warm. Form what you describe I don't think that is a bad bite. Toes/joints are the worst place to receive bites. If you can post a picture and I'll give you my opinion or some of the other squirrel hawkers can help you out. This is just my opinion on the matter nothing else-Zach (Keep us updated)

[Master Yarak]

It will take a while to heal. I am sure it is sore and hurts. Due to the placement of the bite it might require one or two stitches, just to keep it closed. You might call the vet and ask before you go. I am surprised the super glue did not keep it closed. If left alone it will heal, it will just take longer. I would not worry too much about infection just keep an eye on it.
Yarak

[Deleted]

T78,
She gripped my finger on the glove just fine. My concern is that a scab can't form over it because it stays open when she just stands there.

Yarak,
The super glue might have been too old as it was much thicker than when it's fresh. I think just the placement makes it a tough order for the glue to hold it. I'll see what things look like in the morning and call the vet and get an opinion from him.
Thanks for the help guys!

[HawkingRage]

if it gapes open it may just granulate on its own and you will have a scar that is a little pit. Like T78 says, keep it clean and it should be ok if she still has good movement. i guess that is provided that it isnt in an area that could have tendons and or ligaments.

Sometimes it is very important to see the vet. My sponsor says that the quickest way to kill your bird is to take it to a vet. Id err on the side of preventative medicin personally.

[hawkstir]

I've learned from rehabbers of a product called, Johnson and Johnson Gel Strips. They come in several sizes and are inexpensive. You apply them as a bandage and leave them until they fall off. They are hydrogel, and will help prevent infection and speed up healing. I haven't tried them, just offering a suggestion.

[Tiercel78]

So hows the bird doing and what did you end up doing dlanting?

[Deleted]

Friday I found a vet after many phone calls. Seems all the bird docs take Fridays off. He stitched her up and she did fine. It looked great, I have a weeks worth of Baytril to give her and then we can hunt again. See my Log for more discussion on her and where I think I need to go from here.
Thanks for asking T78

[birdguy888]

Rage, if your sponsor says something like that then he's talking about taking the bird to a regular vet, not an avian vet. Avian vets spent an extra 4 years in school to learn specifically about avian species (2 years) and it corrisponds with exotic animals (2 years). Regular vets no nothing about birds or exotics. Their theory is to either treat it with Baytril or Ivermectin. An avian vet is definately needed with bites like this an most other injuries and illnesses. I find it horrible that some of you would recommend to leave it alone and let it heal on its own and not to worry about infection. If your child split its flesh open you'de have them at the doctors or the hospital for stitches and an antibiotic. Our birds are our kids and deserve the same medical attention as we do! I'm proud of you for taking your bird to the vet and having it stitched. Sounds like your more concerned about your bird than some others would be!

[Master Yarak]

To remove any misunderstanding let me say monitoring an injury is important. Not every squirrel bite requires vet care. Many are superficial and require no attention at all.
Now that said, infection can be tricky. Birds hide symptoms very well. RTs are tough hardy birds, they can receive and injury that would put another species out of action. I am not cavalier about bites. I have seen many, not just on my bird but many. I cannot recall one that became infected. Cleaning the wound good seems to be enough in most cases. If you recall I posted about my bird footing herself with her hallux. That was a neat hole, like a nail puncture. Anyone who has seen her will say her hallux is very well developed. That concerned me more than a bite. It too healed without infection. Antibiotics come with some disadvantages so I choose to use the only when necessary. By knowing what is "normal" for your bird you should also know what is not "normal". If in doubt always contact a licensed avian vet, because it is far better to be safe than sorry.
Yarak

[birdguy888]

I agree to a point but when you have a gaping split in the flesh, that requires medical attention unless your a vet or a vet tech or a rehabber and have been trained to do it yourself. Antibiotics are fine as long as you give live cultures along with them because the kill the natural flora/fauna in the birds system and cause yeast infections so anytime I use an antibiotic I also give Lactobacilus acidofilus cultures to stop the yeast infection.

[Tiercel78]

Eddie how much experience do you have with RTs and squirrel bites? I have been dong this for a little while and I have also worked at a rehab center in Texas for over 8years. RTs have one beast of a immune system made for dealing with squirrel bites. Anytime a squirrel bites a loose area of skin it does that. It heals just fine on it's own. Fact of the matter is if you don't need antibiotics then the bird will be better off without it. That is coming from a raptor vet. That also works at a BOP conservancy receiving 200-300 bird a year. Now if dlanting feels better about taking his bird to the vet then that is great. I will not say anything about the fact he aired on the side of caution. In my experience Avian Vets that I knowdon't have much raptor experience, I tend to question a lot more. I had a few that have said some dumb SH!@t before then changed thier mind when I questioned it. You know why they probably gave him 2weeks of antibiotics other than thats a typical dosage for anything? Cause.. they put stitches in a wound that was open for more than a day. That in itself can seal in infection.

My main problem is this
Don't sit here and bash others about their experience and act all high and mighty. Especially when you have little experience in Hawking squirrels with RTs. Not long ago you got your falcon hit by a car flying it in the front yard. I know you knew it was a mistake after the fact . Take the time to take the bird out a field where falcons should be flown. A Master falconer should of know better than that.-Zach

[HawkingRage]

birdguy888 said:

Rage, if your sponsor says something like that then he's talking about taking the bird to a regular vet, not an avian vet. Avian vets spent an extra 4 years in school to learn specifically about avian species (2 years) and it corrisponds with exotic animals (2 years). Regular vets no nothing about birds or exotics. Their theory is to either treat it with Baytril or Ivermectin. An avian vet is definately needed with bites like this an most other injuries and illnesses. I find it horrible that some of you would recommend to leave it alone and let it heal on its own and not to worry about infection. If your child split its flesh open you'de have them at the doctors or the hospital for stitches and an antibiotic. Our birds are our kids and deserve the same medical attention as we do! I'm proud of you for taking your bird to the vet and having it stitched. Sounds like your more concerned about your bird than some others would be!

how many avian vets deal with raptors. very few. I worked with avian vets and never saw a raptor. ive been there and heard some real horror stories about birds and vets. remember thata bird will not show its ill till its too late. if it was just a bite id say leave it alone after you clean it and if you see a reason to treat it then that is when you should. you should know your birds behavior and your bird will tell you. My avian vet that deals with raptors 50 miles away told me that when RIP had POX that i needed to peel the scabs off every day and wash it with iodine. that only make things worse and i had a bird with a deformed beak afterwords. My local rehabber told me to leave it alone and it would go away on its own faster if i just let it be.

Fecals and emergencies for me only please.

[birdguy888]

I'll act high and mighty if I feel the need to. Maybe your avian vets don't handle raptors but mine do. They deal with them on a daily basis. Anything that has an open wound requires medical attention. If you feel like your birds don't need it or deserve it then that is fine; they're your birds and your the one that determines if they suffer or not. If that was my bird I would have also taken it to my avian vet, just like Dave did, had stitches put in, put it on antibiotics and a pain med. As for my birds, I begin their training in the house, move out to the driveway and then into the field. It's how I've trained for 23 years and I'll continue to do so. And unlike people that throw their hands in the air, shake their heads and hope for the best or those that can't afford vet bills, I'll spend thousands of dollars to help a bird no matter what the cost is of the bird. I don't care how strong a RT's immune system is. They are all prone to infection with an open wound reguardless of how the wound happened.