Pup Problem: Biting

[m4tt]

Ok guys. online FB was telling me that hes teething, that may be, but THIS isnt teething. this is littearly biting, he attacks ur hand, he may think its fun, but i have 3 holes in my pinky because of him!

ok so heres the thing:

earlier 2day, i had gotten him to actually stop biting! to a point! u had to get him extremly wound up, and i mean to a point that hes on a rampage of running around, jumped etc.. almost impossible with this dude. so i left to go tell my uncle about this becuase hes the one that told me what to do (flick his teeth/nose, muzzle him with ur hand). and i get back, 15 mins alter at the most, and timm (older bro), his ex, and her friend, have him up, out of the crate, running around.


i was pissed....


so i decided, eh awell, took him outside to get him to go potty, he was done, and had trouble getting up the step, so i picked him up, and he bit me, and i dont mean playful, i mean OH SH!T WTF!? and i noticed then that timm, his ex, and her friend, let him bite them etc, and they were saying "its just play!!"

i was/am beyong pissed now....

now the tricks my uncle told me, he thnks its a game!



my question:

anyone have any ideas how to stop this?

and his chewing? which is a whole nother thing (he has chew toys)


Matt



PS: 1st time training a dog, might be more questions later

[Falcon Boy]

Im still a fan of "its all in how you beat them". That is not to say beat them sencelessly. It could just be as you said a muzzling with the hand or a flick. Sounds like what you were doing was working, you need to get your family to be consistant. Its like hawk, if a hawk has someone rob it, its not going to forget. If the dog gets away with biting, its not going to forget.

[Tiercel78]

If you don't want him biting don't let him do it. If he bites you tell him no and yell loud like your pissed. That should be enough to make him think about what he has done. If that doesn't work a little smack on the nose will suffice. You can also try offering him something like a toy to bite after. No need to beat the pup if you can help it if he pisses you off put him in his kennel. That is punishment enough for a puppy but you have to do it right after he commits the act. Meaning if you tell him no and yell at him and it doesn't work and he keeps doing it. Kennel Time! That is the way that I train some of my dogs in the past and it has worked for me. Remember... with anything he dose you have to catch him in the act or he will not understand why you a mad or what he has done. Don't ever punish a dog if you didn't catch them in tha act.

P.S Bitter Apple work too! It's a bite deterrent sold at most pet stores

[Falcon Boy]

For the record, when i said "its all in how you beat them" i didnt mean to beat it senceless, just an expression

[m4tt]

yea we figured that

i thnk im going to try that bitter apple stuff...

[SkyRider]

I agree with T78, my dog used to bite. While it was mostly teething, we'd let him gnaw a little bit but if he bit hard, we'd yell loud and it scared him. Eventually, we got him a chew toy and he quit biting altogether. If he bites anyone now, it's not fun for him ;D

[Joby]

Matt,
Its mostly a puppy thing. Especially since I think you mentioned the dog is really only about 8 weeks old, right? He's in the process of getting his new teeth in and right now he should be rough housing with his littermates. Just be firm, use a strong, loud stern no and if he continues it then a quick rap on the muzzle should be sufficient. Remember, he is half JR so he has a lot of terrier in him and they tend to be a little bit more "bitier" (ooh, oooh, 10 pts for the coolest made up word today) by nature than say his beagle side. I've had to get a little sterner with Bayli, my 6 month old miniature LH dachshund. I've was sitting on my back porch and feeding Catch BAFRT (Bad #$% Female Red Tail) a rabbit leg with Bayli running loose. Usually she is pretty good, but for some reason she decided she wanted to hop onto my lap and lunge at the bird (or maybe it was the yummy rabbit leg). Anyways, the usual stern NO didn't work so I had to give her a very sharp rap on the muzzle, which startled her and made her fall back off the bottom stair and into the grass. She looked like she had been betrayed and found out I had been cheating on her with another doxie. But, it was better than having 4 talons sunk into her face which was about to happen. The point is that you need to only escalate to that level when the stern NO doesn't work. Since then she has kept her distance from the bird, although like FB told me, these dogs usually don't really learn until they've had their but kicked a time or two by the bird. I just don't want that to happen until she's a bit older.
-Joe

[Falcon Boy]

Exactly, wait for it to learn from the bird until it is older,i've heard no younger than 9 months. I've also been told not to let them get kicked by a rabbit until they are a little older, although i dont remember the age.

that has nothing to do with matts problem though sorry for offtopic

[m4tt]

thanks guys for the info!

bittle appled worked GREAT!! he only licks and then the occasional nibble, i love it!

[Jelly]

Becareful bitter apple works great but don't let it be a solution but a small crutch while you are still establishing things. Since he is still in rough house with litter mates mode when he starts to get rough play tug-o-war and stuff and ONLY rough house with toys. Generally they will have a favorite that they like. Cookies was a stuffed Ape that she would carry around and sometimes attack.
You are going to want to make sure that your dog realizes it isn't alpha and there is really no reason to try taking you on for it. That means that the bitter apple is a tool not the solution. When you let the dog outside or take him anywhere that goes through a door where a puppy would dash in front of you make him sit and wait till you have passed the thresh-hold and anyone higher up on the totem poll. With our dogs before they get dinner, go through doors & gates, go into kennels (except when they are in trouble), and into a car they have to sit in order of age and then go in age order. This kills Cookie because she truly runs the pack but Odie by all definition is still higher and goes first on all occasions.
Make sure you are always consistent if your pup does something wrong it is a stern face, NO, pat on the bump, and to the kennel (this is our routine of the house). Then Kennel is the covered with a towel so that dog can't see out and entertain itself while it is in "time-out." A puppy learns things really quickly because like a human baby they are in sponge mode. Covering the kennel for a minute is usually enough. If they do the same thing again, sterner glare, a louder NO, a firmer spank, and longer time in time-out. Sending them to their kennels is like sending a kid to their room. Some kids it doesn't work because they have a TV, DVD player, game boy, or what not but make sure the kennels are mostly bare except for a sheet or toy. We leave a sheet in each and that is the one that we use to cover the kennel too so they get an empty room to go too.
That said, your puppy gets ready to bite you glare at it. If it yields that is where the punishment ends. Praise and offer a toy and try tug-o-war. If he doesn't then you advance to no, if he stops praise offer the toy and go for the game. Now he bits you glare, vocalize a no, spank (usually for biting we hold the muzzle shut while spanking) and tromp them into the kennel for time-out for a couple of minutes. For odler dogs they can stay in the kennel for longer times but for puppies they have short attention spans so staying in a kennel for a long time really doesn't have a purpose. Our max usually is around 5 minutes for puppies and for older dogs (who so far haven't done much since) is 10 minutes.
If you establish this pattern in him now he will be really quick and easy to train. If you don't you will have a harder time and might not be as successful. You will have to tell your family to be consistent because the puppy will learn bad manners from them and it will come back and bite them later.

Also since he is young you can easily do a thing called a floppy puppy which creates a lot of trust. Doing this also helps show who is pack leader. Sit on the ground with your back propped against a wall (You might not need a wall I am used to big dogs) and roll the dog into your lap so that his stomach is up and his legs bat at the air. use your body to help hold the dog, with Justin who is only 20 lbs still I let him relax between my thighs but with Cookie (around 55 lbs) she takes my whole leg and some of my upper body. He might try to wiggle out, bat at the air, leg you, sneeze and/or everything else he can. He can not come down to he relaxes and just chills for about 30 seconds to start and build up. To let him out of the floppy puppy you move one leg aside and the dog should be pretty limp and he should roll onto his side. Stroke him from ear to tail, long strokes that are calming. It he tries to get up push him back down, if when you are letting him down he struggles to get away put him aback in floppy puppy until he relaxes again and try laying him down again. It is alright to use your hands to hold him too. I usually hold cookie on her shoulders.

Just a few things to think about. I think that makes sense, hopefully it does.

[Joby]

Well said Jelly, I think that has to have been one of the most logical, coherent and well thought out postings that I've seen on this site.
-Joe

[m4tt]

there are rarely found great posts on this site, falconry related or not, that one jelly was one of the best! good job! thanks for the advise!

[Avatar of Shibby]

Great thanks alot Matt, now because of you she's going to make me do the floppy puppy while she takes pics

[m4tt]

ROFL!!!!!!!!! thats great! !! i want to see the pics!!! lol

[MarkT]

Make sure everyone is on the same page in the house when it comes to training the puppy. It is very confusing to the puppy if you are disciplining him for biting and someone else is playing with him in that manner.