I've been struggling with this for quite a while now. I mentioned in earlier posts that I want an "all purpose dog", i.e. one that finds and flushes both rabbits and birds, points and retrieves on land and in water. I've been poling all my hunter friends and several professional dog trainers. Opinions are mixed but it seems that the German Shorthair Pointers are winning, Brittany Spaniels come in a close second with Labs just a little bit behind the Britts. I need help with this. I want to buy a puppy (I was advised that anything over 12 weeks was too old) as early in the spring as possible. That way, I can work with it over the summer and possibly have it ready next fall (the trainers tell me that the pup won't be finished, but it might be passable by then). So, please let me know what your experiences are with dogs and hawks. Thanks all!
Post by Falcon Boy on Feb 13, 2004 17:15:47 GMT -5
Well, if it gets cold there in the winter, i say brittany, but i also love brittany's, so yeah, i kinda take them over GSP's unless your only going for birds. I have a friend whos brittany points rabbits and birds with no problems (gun hunter not falconry). I would take a brit if it were, me. I really dont have much else to say, sry
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
Im a Lab guy. Lab's will flush and retrieve anything as long as it moves. ( somtimes if you point at it if your a good enough trainer) Its also very loving and cuddly compation. We bought our Lab from a place where they are bred to hunt. He even points ! However, its only as good as the trainer so you must spend large amounts of time with him. Much like in falconry.
I'd like to hear more about your lab. I have been told that they are wonderful dogs, extremely versatile and very easy to train. I have a friend who is a professional lab trainer who has offered me a dog for $300. He's almost one-year-old (about 10 months). My friend kept the dog because he wanted to use him for himself. However, like most trainers, he became too busy to give his own dog enough time for proper training. Consequently, the dog knows how to retrieve and does so happily. The trainer swears that he's a natural retriever and will make a very good all-around hunting dog. However, after fetching a bird he runs around the field like a maniac. He won't come back when called. My question to those who have experience training hunting dogs is: what are the chances of getting this dog out of his bad habits at this age?
I think you still have a little time left its going to be much harder though. There are two things you can do ( im assuming that you've only had the dog for a very short period of time thus he prolly doesnt think of you as his master),
One is to play fetch with him and make it as exciting as possible. Also make sure you quit playing with him the moment he starts to show signs of mis behaving. He may either be tired or has lost intrest all together. Even better is to keep him wanting to play at all times. Stop before he shows disintrest. The trick is to get the dog to always want to play with you and please you (which is to give him constant love and attention) and he'll do anything you want. Treat him like you would a child raise your voice slightly when he's irritating you, then slowly raise it untill your yelling if he countinues. He should understand that after the yell you will severly punish him.( hitting him and such) This will give him an understanding of a gradual warning that what he is doing is wrong.
The second, ( much easier I do not approve of but it does work very effectivly) is to use a shock collar. You must be very carefull however because if you dont do it right the moment the collar is off the dog will go ballistic. I suggest that you use the same method with using your voice as a warning untill you resort to pressing the button.
So bottom line is to give him tons of love ( thats why I like labs because they give unconditional love all the time and its easier to train on love ) Oh and if you are thinking of combineing this dog with falconry dont forget to keep the bird nearby at all times. He should of been trained with the bird since he was a puppy but thats where the shock collar might come in handy. If he jumps at the bird you can without warning deliver the shock so that he understands that behavior will not be tolerated under any circumstances.
I hope that I wasnt too broad for you but if you have any other questions I can help you out in the lab department.
That was a good an thorough answer. Just what i needed. Thanks. A little background on me; i obedience trained dogs for years. I have never trained a hunting dog. Your methods seem to be sound. If i go with the older lab, i may be asking more questions.
One point regarding shock collars; these collars allow the trainer to administer a correction without the dog associating the discomfort to the human. The dog doesn't have the capicity to make the connection. However, a smack with a hand, newpaper (which to the dog is merely an extension of the arm) can cause a lack of trust or even a little insecurity. An old house training trick is to fill a sock with some navy beens. If the dog is caught in the act, you throw the filled sock at the dogs rear quarter. The dog will think " d**n! that floor just bit my butt!", but it can't pin the correction on the owner. That's a rather long winded way of saying that i like shock collars. Voltage doesn't hurt you seriously. Amperage is what gets you. These collars are very low amps.
But back to the subject. you made the lab choice sound more attractive, thanks!
The dog doesn't have the capicity to make the connection.
I disagree, I think the dog will notice that before you put the collar on he's not controllable but afterwards he gets shocked. It really depends on how you have been training the dog. If you use dummy collars or leave the collar on all the time then of coarse he wont associate the collar with the shock.
However, a smack with a hand, newpaper (which to the dog is merely an extension of the arm) can cause a lack of trust or even a little insecurity
I belive that asserts that you are the alpha male and that the dog wants to please you at all times. ( dont abuse that though, just keep the dog with that mentallity) We rarely hit our dogs. we use that method I explained about ealier which is to raise your voice slightly each time untill you hit them. When we hit them.. we hit em hard and we've only had to hit em about once to get there attention. Its much more convienent to voice command your dog ( and be the envy of all your neighbors) then to keep em on a shock collar although I will admit the shock collar is quite nice some times . I dont think alot of people have the self patience to do these sort of things so its not a very common practice.
An old house training trick is to fill a sock with some navy beens. If the dog is caught in the act, you throw the filled sock at the dogs rear quarter. The dog will think " d**n! that floor just bit my butt!", but it can't pin the correction on the owner.
We have a diffrent way, we keep our dogs in the kennal as a puppy untill they start to cry( they wont soil themselves). Then when that happens you take the dog outside to take care of business.( we actually trained one of them to poop in only one part of the yard so we didnt have to clean up the lawn) While they are making poopy you happilly say "good boy/girl," "good business" This way they associate what they are doing with the word and realize that you are happy and proud of them for what they are doing. Even if its 3am you still need to show that your proud ( which isnt very easy especially if they interupted a good dream lol) eventially you give em a little trust ( I like to let em sleep on my bed this way they get outta the kennal and spend some time with me , and they'll wake me up if they need to go.) Whenever my dogs need to go out they stand by the door and wimper. So I know I must be doing somthing right. One thing I cant understand is why although I do most of the training they think my dad is the alpha male...I guess since they see him telling me what to do they figure he's the boss. They follow him everywhere and wimper to go outside when he's out there. Makes me a little jealous but hey what can you do?
Voltage doesn't hurt you seriously. Amperage is what gets you.
That reminds me... I've always wanted to know what is the diffrence between the two?
That reminds me... I've always wanted to know what is the diffrence between the two?
Alex,
My father was trained as an electronic geek at Texas A&M, and taught electronics in the navy during WWII. He tried to cram that stuff down my throat since i was three! I resisted. Now i need it. I'll try any way:
You have 10 gallons of water (volts) being pushed through a 1" pipe, with 10 lbs of pressure (amps)... Increase the pressure (amps) and the water (volts) will hit you harder. Forgive me dad
Also, i have book on canine psychology that i think you would find very interesting. I'm at work now, but i will post title, author and ISBN when i get home.
...And you're right about crate training dogs. It is the very best way to house train the critters. Most ppl think it's cruel to leave them crated all day "all by themselves". My dogs couldn't wait to get in their crates at night. It's the ole cave mentality thing... capitalize on it!
hey Bob I'm an elecrtician buy trade although I've never heard the water analogy before I had a freind who said basically the sameanalogy with 100 head of cows and and a gate. Go figure. Chris
Also, i have book on canine psychology that i think you would find very interesting. I'm at work now, but i will post title, author and ISBN when i get home.
i would say get a springer spainnel, i got one 1 year old and has already got hunted got the bird everytime. we trained are dog up in Minnesota and the place is the #1 training facility in the U.S you can train any dog that you want there.the place is pine shadows. here is the website www.pineshadows.com/
OK. i think i have things settled... finally. This is the advice given to me by Mike McDermott: You can't do it all with one dog. He recommended any number of dogs for hunting fur, but recommended a GSP or a GWP for feathers. Now i have to locate good dogs and start training.