should i get telemetry?

[harrishawker79]

michigan does not require u to keep the same bird for 24 but u must have a bird for 24 months b4 upgrading.and its a sponsor responsibilty to train the app to do it right. so if this means he has to turn this bird loose and trap another cause it was sick its his sponsors fault for allowing him to keep the sick bird anyways.and no i dont agree with flying the bird at frozen rabbits in the off season. i do agree tele. on a red is a waste of money and tottaly useless ive flown to many reds to count in my 17yrs and never have i lost one train the bird right and watch its weight and watch the weather in which u fly it and you wont have no problems.as for the frozen rabbit a hawk is to smart to keep chasing frozen rabbits then be expected to chase live wild running rabbits turn the bird loose cut your losses and trap a new one in sept.

[harrishawker79]

well as a matter of fact i dont use tele. on any of my birds and i now fly hhs i still feel its useless. as for the only birds i would use it on would be falcons and goshawks and thats cause they tail chase everything and anything.so no it dont have to be because its a prized bird.its called train your bird and get the weight right and they want to be with you.and your right at this time of the yr redtails want to soar and in ten minutes could be well out of tele range and now hes lost his tele and lost his hawk . again it comes down to his sponsor doing her job and showing him the right way to train the hawk.

[harrishawker79]

i dont mean to be rude but this is exactly the reason forums are bad and its not the apprentices fault its ours.there is a reason why states make apprentices be sponsored buy people that have done it and suposed to know how to do it.heres a app. and he already is questions his sponsor i tell u what if i told my apprentice to do something and i came on to a forum and found him question me i would drop him on the spot.if he is already worried about how many birds his sponsor has lost then he already has no respect for her.

[steveouk]

Jun 17, 2011 9:38:24 GMT -5 harrishawker79 said:

i dont mean to be rude but this is exactly the reason forums are bad and its not the apprentices fault its ours.there is a reason why states make apprentices be sponsored buy people that have done it and suposed to know how to do it.heres a app. and he already is questions his sponsor i tell u what if i told my apprentice to do something and i came on to a forum and found him question me i would drop him on the spot.if he is already worried about how many birds his sponsor has lost then he already has no respect for her.

But isn't that a whole new debate. There are many people out there who have no business being sponsors. Thats not the app's fault thats the sponsors. Most Apps are so desperate to get a sponsor they will go with the first person thats willing to take them on.

As for telemetry , I didn't use it for my first RT for my second and third i have used it. The argument for "oh well you can get another one" IMOP is not valid as you can only take 2 raptors in one year. What happens if one dies and then a wild RT chases of your second bird or some other issue totally at no fault to the APP. if that happens in a 4 month period the App has to re do the whole year again. It has nothing to do with being lazy or not training the bird well. Its a fail safe if something happens i can get my bird back.

As for birds hunting during the molt, most bird abatement people hunt during the summer they change when the molt occurs . I have spoken to two professional abatement falconers and they both said falconers are paranoid about stress marks and both of them have said stress comes from other factors not just weight.

As i posted earlier put a transmitter on a bird you want to keep

[harrishawker79]

sorry steve i dont agree with your post at all ive had several crows come in and mob my birds and a well trained hawk will not even let them fade them.it has to do with weight control and putting game under you hawk.if your hawk is trained right it will trust you and no that your going to put game under it.now maybe and i say maybe if i live where eagles were around chasing my hawk then maybe i would put it on but in mi. theres no eagles to chase my birds. and ive had several wild reds fly in and land in the same tree as my birds and follow me and the bird through out the woods and my bird only watch me for game. so again train your birds right u have no problems

[SkyRider]

Jun 17, 2011 9:38:24 GMT -5 harrishawker79 said:

i dont mean to be rude but this is exactly the reason forums are bad and its not the apprentices fault its ours.there is a reason why states make apprentices be sponsored buy people that have done it and suposed to know how to do it.heres a app. and he already is questions his sponsor i tell u what if i told my apprentice to do something and i came on to a forum and found him question me i would drop him on the spot.if he is already worried about how many birds his sponsor has lost then he already has no respect for her.

I can't really agree with you on this one, although I have agreed with you on pretty much everything else...

I don't think the mapesmachine being worried about how many birds his sponsor has lost is necessarily a lack of respect between the two. We have to remember that mapes has kept this red-tail for quite some time now and even though he isn't hunting with it yet, he's probably become pretty attached. That would explain why he would like telemetry (he obviously doesn't want to lose this bird) and it also explains why his sponsor losing four birds has become a warning sign to him. Put yourself in his shoes... You have a bird you've kept for months, you have yet to fly him free (which is nerve racking for a new apprentice) and you're worried about losing the bird. Concerns like this are natural and are bound to come with inexperience.

The other part I didn't agree with is dropping the apprentice because he got online and asked some questions. I feel that's way too harsh and would be arrogance on the part of the sponsor to think his answer is the alpha and omega and there isn't another way to even consider. Asking questions is how you learn, especially in this sport. "A smart man learns from his own mistakes, but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others." Asking around for advice and opinions isn't a bad thing at all. To me, it shows initiative, motivation and a curiosity to find the best answer. Nothing wrong with any of those qualities, especially when it comes to falconry.

(Getting back on topic )Bottom line mapesmachine, I say get the telemetry. If you're worried about losing this bird (which is understandable) then you'll be worried about other birds that you could easily invest more time and money in. Would I use it on a red-tail? No. Should you? That's entirely your choice in the end. Nothing wrong with fine-tuning your telemetry skills on a red-tail. If you're sponsor has serious issues with you getting the telemetry, sit him down and have a good talk about why you want it. In the end, I can't imagine a falconer having any kind of serious sponsorship-ending issue over purchasing equipment to help keep your bird safe and hunting with you.

Sky

[harrishawker79]

well when ur a apprentice thats your job is to listen to your sponsor and yes he boss if the state wanted him running around question his sponsor and not listen to him we would not need to sponsor people just let them go get the bird and ask questions online . and as for gettin attached to the bird maybe people need to remember these are not pets they are wild birds. i very rarely keep a redtail for more then one season i trap a new one every yr and train it fly it and repeat.the bottom line is everyone does things deff. and when he becomes a genral he can do things his way.app. are examples of thier sponsor's and when they start messing up the first thing people askes is whos your sponsor and why is he not helping you yet half the time its more like the app just dont want to do as told.
and yes i dont have time to put up with someone who dont listen if i tell you to call me every other day to let me know how things are going and i tell you to do something that keeps your bird safe and u dont listen your dropped i dropped one guy for not returnin my phone calls.this sport means the world to me and im not going to let someone into this sport that seems to not listen when spoken to by someone who knows more then him.and when a sponsor doesnt due thier job it leads to the next sponsor not doing thier just cause it ws taught to them.

[SkyRider]

Mapesmachine asked for opinions on getting telemetry. He didn't try to undermine his sponsor. He didn't say his sponsor was wrong. Nor is he trying to do anything that flies in the face of conventional falconry wisdom. He asked if he should get something to help with his bird. I think I can safely say that most of us agree that while telemetry isn't necessary, it's not a bad thing to have lying around for either this bird or a future bird. Getting advice isn't wrong. Heck, before we get licensed, how many of us spend time with our noses in books written by different men, reading about different falconers experience and learning from every where we can. We encourage that like crazy to the new pre-apprentices. A sponsor shouldn't be a task master. He's a mentor. He's there to help you do your best. Not for him to do his best with your bird.

I could understand your comments if mapes was asking a question about something potentially harmful to the bird that his sponsor had flat-out said no to. Or if he were trying to get support for doing something that would reflect badly on the sport or the bird. Telemetry isn't one of those things.

As for not getting attached, we're humans. We get attached to cars or our favorite baseball cap. Attaching is part of who we are. There isn't a falconer out there who isn't attached in some small way to any bird of prey, whether he flies it or sees it in the wild. Attachment is natural and just because it's a wild bird doesn't make it any easier to stay aloof. We care deeply about our birds. If we didn't care, most of them wouldn't do as well as they do because we wouldn't have a constant attention to detail with something we didn't care about.

[harrishawker79]

yes i agree when ur pre app. you read read read and do wht u have to to pass the test as if u dont pass ur test you dont need a sponsor but once you get your sponsor hes boss.and im not saying he is 100% underminded her but in a away he is.his spomsor told him dont worry about it and instead of talking to his sponsor sayin hey i think i would feel better if i get tele and use it hes on here.bottom line is are you or anyone else going to help him if he does make his sponsor mad and she says you know what ur done i dont need this ? no i dont think so. bottom line is not all but a select few people in this world are the type 99 people could tell them its not a good idea and the person will call around til he finds the one person who agrees and says ok its ok then. just listn to the sponsor train the bird right and everything works out

[steveouk]

Jun 17, 2011 11:06:49 GMT -5 harrishawker79 said:

sorry steve i dont agree with your post at all ive had several crows come in and mob my birds and a well trained hawk will not even let them fade them.it has to do with weight control and putting game under you hawk.if your hawk is trained right it will trust you and no that your going to put game under it.now maybe and i say maybe if i live where eagles were around chasing my hawk then maybe i would put it on but in mi. theres no eagles to chase my birds. and ive had several wild reds fly in and land in the same tree as my birds and follow me and the bird through out the woods and my bird only watch me for game. so again train your birds right u have no problems

Thats your situation that applies to you. I have had redtails come in and join the hunt and have had no problems but i have also had a redtail chase my redtail for 5 miles and that was his first free flight. I Know of other apprentice that simular things have happend. How can you get game under a hawk when it is its first free flight ? And no i'm not trying to be picky because this actually happened to me with my current male redtail.

I couldn't agree more with training the bird to you, the glove and the lure but the thing that makes me smile is last year i must have spent over $1000 dollars in gas before i found a hawk i wanted to keep so i am sure as hell not going to risk loosing it for the sake of sticking a transmitter on it.

[harrishawker79]

again i make sure when my apps turn thier bird loose for the first they are in a field with lots of rabbits and i do my job as a sponsor to make sure the hawk is ready b4 for they turn thier bird loose for the first time.cause again thats the job of the sponsor.basicly we are going to go around and around all because we all have diffirent ideas.but bottom line again as said his sponsor is who decides weather or not he moves on to general once he becomes a gen he can question anything he wants to.

[steveouk]

Jun 17, 2011 13:11:53 GMT -5 harrishawker79 said:

again i make sure when my apps turn thier bird loose for the first they are in a field with lots of rabbits and i do my job as a sponsor to make sure the hawk is ready b4 for they turn thier bird loose for the first time.cause again thats the job of the sponsor.basicly we are going to go around and around all because we all have diffirent ideas.but bottom line again as said his sponsor is who decides weather or not he moves on to general once he becomes a gen he can question anything he wants to.

Again your situation and fortunate for you, you have such fields.

I think we pretty much established his sponsor isn't that bothered and if shes lost 4 hawks probably isnt that great of a sponsor. So we can pretty much assume that when the time comes the app will be upgraded without any questions.

[harrishawker79]

well i wont pass judgement onto his sponsor as i dont know who she is or what cause the loss of the hawks or for that matter kind of hawk she lost or what the time period between lost hawks.but im certain you are 100% right he prolly will get the advancement come time.and when i say i dont know who she is its prolly cause he didnt say and i didnt ask as i know most te falconers in michigan.and most are decent falconers not all but most lol either way im sure things will work out just fine.

[nanahawk]

Slow down. We don't know this sponsor or her circumstances. We don't know how long she has been in the sport. I know master falconers that i look up to that have lost birds. We don't know how they where lost. What they where or anything. You can't base assumptions of a person on how many birds they list if that's all the info you have. For all we know she has 30 years experience and she lost those birds long ago.

Fact of the matter is this person has agreed to take time out of her life to help someone learn. Just that in itself has to attest to her personality.

As an apprentice myself I know this/ You listen to your sponsor! There should not be a penalty for asking for outside advice however. Heck we get outside advice/knowledge by reading books and talking to other falconers. But all that aside. The Sponsor/apprentice relationship is not one sided. We as apprentices agree to be taught and listen to our sponsor. That does not mean we cannot question certain methods that they employ, but simply that we do what they say. We told them we would from the start. And where grateful they took us under their wing.

[harrishawker79]

manahawk exactly your post is exactly right u can ask questions and read books but u also stated you would listen to your sponsor.