Forum Tolerance (Members Input)

[Tiercel78]

I want to know what the members of this forum want. I want to know what they want to see in the threads and post on this forum. I assume that most would want helpful information and things that a relevant to the thread. However...I could be wrong and I am asking for your imput.

[killjoy]

Nothing against Dave and Fred, but i would rather not see them 2 post in eachothers personal threads any more.
I dont want them gone, but you get them 2 in the same thread and its a couple alpha males duking it out.

and that just goes for the in fighting, Migisi jumped into the fun also with Dave and then it became more volitial.

now i am not a perfect angel, i put my foot into the waters of turmoil also and stirred the pot.

I would liike the fires to be put out as soon as an ember flies into the sceen.

[Flight]

Nov 20, 2009 0:10:54 GMT -5 Tiercel78 said:

I assume that most would want helpful information and things that a relevant to the thread.

Hit the nail on the head,

Recently the arguemental threads have been getting 99 1/2% of the members attention. the other 1/2% being logs mainly. I would like to see a wider range of replies, on all threads. These are the Apprentice Falconry Forums, but it seems those trying to get apprenticeship, and apprentices trying to get information are being blown off because of the nonsense threads.

[Deleted]

spme real product reviews, maybe some threads about how more experianced falconers go about doing things. Im interested in hood makeing at the moment so perhaps some how-to and links to leather suppliers

[Migisi]

Nov 20, 2009 7:56:06 GMT -5 killjoy said:

I would liike the fires to be put out as soon as an ember flies into the sceen.

From where I sit, you (meaning all) should really practice what you preach. There isn't one regular contributor here (including some moderators) who hasn't ignited, participated in, or fanned flames at one time or another.

You pretend to be so annoyed by arguments, but you're right there reading, following along, and replying, aren't you. As Flight correctly observed: "...arguemental threads have been getting 99 1/2% of the members attention". So, quit the pretense and admit you do enjoy the drama.

This being an 'apprentice' (not general or master) forum, you newbies should decide what's PC to discuss here, what constitutes 'nonsense', and how each post should be phrased so your forum stays warm and fuzzy and your sensitivities aren't offended.

Do let me know what you decide. Then I'll decide if I want to continue contributing here. Or maybe you'd prefer the moderators to decide. No problem. Just get the right person(s) to send them PMs.

[dirthawker]

T78 thankyou for your attn to the forum as of late and I am sure we will all try to be a little more watchful in the future. I am also not one to say that I dont get a lil heated from time to time and have on occasion gotten out of hand myself. I just hope that we can take a step back right now and forget the past arguments and move forward to keep this sight a good resource for all. migisi we would hate to lose you from this forum as well as others we all contribute much to the site be pre AP, AP, general, or master falconers. weather it be mistakes we made or advice we share.

[Flight]

"nonsense" Constitutes in my opinion, the following: Run on rants about off topic subjects, flaming,insults, etc. I really don't care if you guys want to battle between eachother. Just don't blow off legitimate questions, thread subjects to do it.

Obviously since this is an apprentice forum, the questions being asked here are indeed going to be repeats, or "common knowledge" to the senior members. So to me a thorough straightforward non-arrogant reply would be appreciated.

Of course, these are just my views, I'm sure others will beg to differ.

[tampamatt]

I think the line should be drawn at personal insults as they contribute nothing useful to a thread. Disagreements and spirited discussions are fine, but personal insults are a good way to burn bridges and waste people'e time.

[pioneersnt]

Heated debates can be very educational. I see nothing objectionable about arguing topics that pass on pertinent information and inform the readers. The line is crossed (in my opinion) when it degrades to personal attacks. He said, he did, look at what he is guilty of does not educate nor inform and should not be tolerated in this venue.

As for Migisi's involvement, She called HH out on inconsistencies in comments and personal actions. This has some educational value as to the topic of the debate. It is when personal attacks entered into the debate that the line is crossed.
Just as an example:
If you state you don't approve of apprentices having CB raptors, then turn around and place a CB raptor in the hands of an apprentice, an explanation should be expected. The debate could expose some circumstance, with educational or informational value, that would allow an exemption to the original position.
If you're busted, admit you're busted and move on. If your actions are justified discuss the topic. As long as the debate is kept to passing on information and not attacking or degrading anyone, I see no problem.

Just my opinion, but you asked for it.

[Tiercel78]

I like it keep it coming! I agree with most of the points stated so far.

[Migisi]

Nov 20, 2009 14:18:48 GMT -5 Flight said:

... Just don't blow off legitimate questions, thread subjects to do it....

...the questions being asked here are indeed going to be repeats, or "common knowledge" to the senior members. So to me a thorough straightforward non-arrogant reply would be appreciated.

While replies would be appreciated, there's no forum requirement that senior falconers (or any member, for that matter) must follow all threads, answer all questions, or offer advice (especially when it's not requested of them).

If you (anyone) have a question, ask it. If you want information from a specific member, address them directly. If they are otherwise involved in another discussion, send them a PM. Take the initiative, instead of grumbling that you're being ignored.

IMO, many apprentices are relying too heavily on forums (not just this one) for advice and basic information, when they should be consulting their sponsors first. Remember your sponsor?

And too many pre-apprentices are not doing the necessary research and reading to acquire 'common knowledge' - hence one reason why their questions often go unanswered. Do your own preliminary work. I, and other senior members here, had to.

My dollar's worth.

[Wolf]

What I want from the forum is what I helped design it to be long time ago.

I wanted it to be "geared" towards helping Apprentices.

I want it to be a resource that someone can quickly fine relevant information to what they are researching.

This means, we constantly are drumming that its for "apprentices" because it will keep us reminded that we should guide them the best we can verses telling them to ask their sponsors. Granted.. stupid questions should be delt with quickly but in courteous manner.

This would help reduce the amount of "flaming" but also repercussions for "flaming" would cut down on it greatly.
You'll never stop it.. and why would you honestly? A lot of it is entertaining and keeps people coming back. Just make it "constructive" flaming and not "personal attacks" and its cool. Follow through with warnings.. kick people out of here that need to be kicked out early.


I did my best to keep it "pruned" and "sorted" of relevant information and since our admin never wanted to delete anything I'd throw it in the "archives" if it wasn't very interesting to compromise. Yes it takes some work but if you keep at it regularly its easy to maintain everyday. The more you keep at it.. and show a "presence" people are less likely to not care.

Now a days things get posted everywhere. Wrong threads, in wrong category.. completely useless questions and so on..

There's so much to wade through I lack the interest to sort through it. I'll usually see what the last "40 posts" are so that MAYBE something with a good title is posted.. or maybe someones slamming someone else. Why? Because its more of a "Whats going on in the forum" verses a " Hey there's something new to learn!"


Granted. When I first joined... we were all learning together. Kind of a blind leading the blind. It was interesting conversations and thought provoking cause we didn't know how verses some people telling other people how they should do it. Still.. there's new techniques.. things we can share with each other. Those falconry logs are GOLD... i wish more people would spend the effort to make them detailed instead of a kill log.


The forum has a ton of potential.... i've been told to shut up and the forum is great just the way it is even though it isn't efficient. What people dont understand is this place is a piece of me... I started here. I learned here.. I grew here. This forum is MY forum. I know what I did behind the scenes. I know where it began.
I'll fight for it.. and complain about it. Maybe someday someone will agree.. that it needs to be maintained regularly.. most likely not.

I have many ideas to improve it and make it more fun and interactive. Such as prizes( hoods, books, telemetry, monthly raffles, Members who are Regular posters and awesome contributors are shown how much their knowledge is appreciated... that kind of thing.

All of this free to its members.. .. and Sadly.. it just wont fly. I wish this wasnt the case.

Just leave it the way it is. Thats what most want. Thats what people will get.

[harrishawker]

I hope by contributing on this Thread that nothing personal will be construed as being so on any comment I make as to do with recent events on anyone including myself. I hope you can see where I am coming from.
First of all I think the load on the moderators is high and IK has said to me that he is not coming back so that means another Moderator gone so I would like to see more of them just to lessen the workload and be quicker to nip anything in the bud.
Also I think that the code of conduct which was used as warnings on a bar was a good idea. 3 strikes and you are out and if you don’t like it...Tough go elsewhere.
I am thinking here of clarifying the forum a bit more clearly which would help Apprentices and spread some of the load on the moderators
Maybe too a sub-sections Pre-Apprentice.....Apprentice 1...Apprentice2....etc Going up to General (2’s) would also be in that section up to master then perhaps the more experienced say falconers can know at what levels each are and advise appropriately in that section. That does not mean that an Apprentice one can’t pop into the Master section to point their views etc in fact that would be a main advantage of it. Sometimes I talk to an apprentice and then realise because it slips my mind to look to see what level they are and then perhaps say something which is either teaching them to suck eggs or going way to high up. Apprentice 3 could help two’s etc. And can find them more easily... But at least we know at what level of training there are more easily and say the right thing.
I would think that most advice that is not given but is read is in the Logs. Perhaps not necessary to have your level sub sectioned but more of the birds. Off course to your first bird a RT or kestrel is important which we already have but perhaps a HH section...Falcon section etc so if you decide it’s your first ever HH you can go to that Sub-section.
This would eliminate just stating advice in a General section and that’s sometimes where the trouble starts as everyone gets lost on who is at what’
In my view why do we have an ‘Off Topic’ section? That is when the crap comes out; I do think though that some sort of a Laughing jovial section could be incorporate like maybe a Joke section which ONLY and ONLY jokes can be told.
The rest of the sub sections we have now seemed to run smoothly with know arguments as the Mews section and others.
Also perhaps moderators could be assigned to certain sections like 1 to the HH and Falcon section and maybe two to the RT on what experience they have so again if it’s your first falcon you can ask questions in that sub section from experienced long wingers etc.
Now I know I have gone a bit off topic of the thread but my theory was that by doing this it would help in going to help in controlling aggravation.
As for me and maybe other members that don’t fall into sections then a top moderator can put me in one section and i really don’t care whether it’s in the pre-apprentice or master as it’s not about ‘You are higher than me’ but just clearing up who is where to find much more easily
It’s just my thoughts and no more

[gamble759]

nicely put, wolf&harrishawker.

[username]

Nov 20, 2009 7:56:06 GMT -5 killjoy said:

I would liike the fires to be put out as soon as an ember flies into the sceen.

Yeah I hate wasting my time reading two guys fighting when I am trying to gain knowledge...