username you have to go with what your sponsor says but for others squirrel hawking is worth the risk and allot of fun. i for one will be hunting lots of squirrels this year with zoie
Alright so I asked my sponsor about squirrel hawking and immideatly after I finished speaking he said that it was not a good idea at all, due to the risk. Is squirrel hawking really worth the risk? He said squirrel chaps were crap so...
Well he is certainly not alone in his thinking. It might help you to read the thread I wrote called Risk. Hawking squirrels is really no more risk than hunting rabbits. The risk is simply different. It CAN be managed. Do most falconers who do not hunt squirrels know how to properly manage the risk...No.
Squirrel hawking is very different from hunting rabbits. It requires a different skill set from both falconer and bird. Too many falconers have ingrained misconceptions about squirrel hawking. When I started it was considered foolish to "risk" your bird on squirrels. Since then they give meet pins at NAFA for killing squirrels. They are now an acceptable quarry.
Everyone's experience leads them to draw different conclusions. I have immersed myself in the squirrel hawking community since 1987. I have seen dozens of different birds with dozens of different falconers from all over the U.S. I have never seen a RT maimed by a squirrel. My bird caught close to 700. Only ONE bite required surgery. $300.00 bucks and two months later she was returned to perfect health. I have seen many bites. Most were non serious and I have not seen any become infected.
Compare that to how many RTs I have heard about or seen suffer impact damage while hunting rabbits. Wings broken, necks broken, legs broken and birds being knocked unconscious.
I am used to combating the misconceptions surrounding hawking squirrels. I doubt it will ever stop. Not everyone is cut out to hawk squirrels. Not every bird is either. For me it is the opium of falconry. So, is it "worth" the risk you bet. As far chaps go, there is no doubt in my mind that they offer some protection. Unless this gentleman has actually seen chaps after a season of hunting fox squirrels his opinion of the effectiveness of chaps means little.
Perhaps you are in a situation that you have no choice but to follow his edict. Perhaps you are in a situation where you can agree to disagree. Either way you now have a bit more accurate info about hawking squirrels from someone who has done it for 14 years.
Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
My past apprentice (who is now a longtime Master) flies a large fe RT. He had no choice about hawking squirrels. His hawk started hunted them on her own in her third year, and she still does. She'll pass up an easy rabbit kill to go catch a squirrel. In her 13 years, she has lost a toe, and has a talon permanently gone on another toe. Still, she persists on squirrels.
My other past apprentice (now Master) also flies a large fe hawk. Again, her bird chose squirrels on her own in her third season. Yes, she's had foot injuries also, but no toe or talon loss (yet).
There IS some risk involved. But that's true for falconry in general.
You too may not have a choice about hunting squirrels. Your hawk may make that decision for you.
My past apprentice (who is now a longtime Master) flies a large fe RT. He had no choice about hawking squirrels. His hawk started hunted them on her own in her third year, and she still does. She'll pass up an easy rabbit kill to go catch a squirrel. In her 13 years, she has lost a toe, and has a talon permanently gone on another toe. Still, she persists on squirrels.
My other past apprentice (now Master) also flies a large fe hawk. Again, her bird chose squirrels on her own in her third season. Yes, she's had foot injuries also, but no toe or talon loss (yet).
There IS some risk involved. But that's true for falconry in general.
You too may not have a choice about hunting squirrels. Your hawk may make that decision for you.
Does he make in quickly? Is he always close by when she comes down with one? Does he fly with proper chaps on her?
Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
Does he make in quickly? Is he always close by when she comes down with one? Does he fly with proper chaps on her?
Yarak
He wasn't a newbie when it happened, Yarak. She had taken many squirrels before this one, without any serious injuries.
There were four of us right there when her toe was permanently disabled. His hawk had followed a squirrel that ran into a hollow log on the ground with a large knot hole in it. She landed on the log, and in a flash, she put her foot in through the knot hole to grab the squirrel. It bit through her toe joint and severed the tendon. She was seen by a vet, prognosis very poor. Because the toe was flacid, it would tuck under her foot pad when she landed or walked and the talon would pierce the foot pad. Bumblefoot would've resulted had the toe not been surgically removed.
My original point was ...even if a falconer doesn't plan or want to hunt squirrels, his hawk may have other ideas about it.
Did they try to reattach the tendon, Migisi? I had my FHH (which I don't fly on squirrels) somehow found one and took a nasty bite to the top of her middle right front toe. It was hanging flaccid and curled under. I had the vet reattach the tendon and she was good to go within about 2 months. The surgery, and follow-up visits, came to about $850, but I figured it was my responsibility to get it all fixed. Don't know it it would've been different if she'd been bitten right in the middle of the joint though. -Joby
Did they try to reattach the tendon, Migisi? ... Don't know it it would've been different if she'd been bitten right in the middle of the joint though.
Too much damage. The only thing holding the toe to the foot was skin.
Thanks for all of the information. My sponsor has been a master falconer for 30 years, so his input is to be taken to heart. I have a MALE RT, and wondering if the sex of the bird particurally matters. I know that the females are stronger, but slower. Also I am a bit concerned about if one of the talons or toes get bitten off, could that inhibit the raptors ability to catch quarry on its own in the wild?
...Also I am a bit concerned about if one of the talons or toes get bitten off, could that inhibit the raptors ability to catch quarry on its own in the wild?
From my observations of my past apprentice's hawk (with the missing toe and talon), she has NO problem catching quarry in falconry. She continues to catch large game like rabbits and squirrels. Given that, I can't see why she'd have trouble doing so if she was free-living.
In addition, I've trapped and banded wild hawks with missing or nonfunctioning digits, and their condtion was quite robust - an indication to me that their hunting abilities hadn't been impaired.
my sponsor has a HH that talon grows out straight, many falconers turned there nose up at him but it would seem the hawk has not suffered in any shape or form and is a killing machine. On another note i know of another friend that hunts squirels with a MHH , now considereing those birds flying weights are around 650ish then why cant a male or a small female redtail take a tree rat . I have yet to understand why alot of people state that unless the hawk is over a certain weight ie 1200 or more then this persuit should not be encouraged. Perhaps it's my inexperiance and somthing ill undstand over time
Post by squirrelnailer on Nov 10, 2009 14:19:31 GMT -5
This is my 2nd year of apprenticeship and at the beginning I wasn't sure about what to go for ( rabbits or squirrels) But let me tel you that since she first trapped her first squirrel I don't hunt anything but treerats!! It is awsome to watch the chase up in the trees. and about the risk , well there are some risks, but what is life with out risks??? My PFRT just got 1 nasty bite that took 2 weeks to heal. but guess what? I still don't use squirrel chaps. she has learned alot and now shes really good at binding to the head.
Post by squirrelnailer on Nov 10, 2009 14:25:14 GMT -5
I forgot to say that my PFRT grabbed her first squirrel this season at 1560 Grams!! I still want to lower her weight around 1300, right now she is killing at 1430 Grams
This is my 2nd year of apprenticeship and at the beginning I wasn't sure about what to go for ( rabbits or squirrels) But let me tel you that since she first trapped her first squirrel I don't hunt anything but treerats!! It is awsome to watch the chase up in the trees. and about the risk , well there are some risks, but what is life with out risks??? My PFRT just got 1 nasty bite that took 2 weeks to heal. but guess what? I still don't use squirrel chaps. she has learned alot and now shes really good at binding to the head.
Brilliant!!! I somehow doubt your sponsor is a "serious" squirrel hawker. To think your bird will not benefit from the protection of chaps is ludicrous. You SEEM to have a very cavalier attitude about squirrel bites. "what is life without risks" The risk is not yours, it is your bird's. So guess what??? It will only be a matter of time before she receives a bite that will severely damage her that a pair of chaps may have prevented. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
my sponsor has a HH that talon grows out straight, many falconers turned there nose up at him but it would seem the hawk has not suffered in any shape or form and is a killing machine. On another note i know of another friend that hunts squirels with a MHH , now considereing those birds flying weights are around 650ish then why cant a male or a small female redtail take a tree rat . I have yet to understand why alot of people state that unless the hawk is over a certain weight ie 1200 or more then this persuit should not be encouraged. Perhaps it's my inexperiance and somthing ill undstand over time
Size related factors. If you are hunting Fox squirrels, they are well muscled. At a full 48 oz I have seen a bird knocked over spun around and kicked off. If that can happen to a 3lb bird it can certainly happen to a smaller one more frequently.
Now if you accept the premise that a squirrel bite is inevitable then the toe size becomes important. Their is simply more tissue to take the bite. If it needs repair their is more ligament to reattach.
As I have said before (and it does bear repeating) CATCHING the squirrel is only the first part. Unlike most rabbits, squirrels avoid being badly damaged by the hawks talons. It is when the two animals come together that it becomes serious. There have been many times when the hawk was unable to come to the ground right away. That means I can provide zero help. Would you rather have powerful feet and big toes and a bit more mass in your bird in those situations? If I could fly a bird with huge feet and a super grip that weighed 1 lb I would probably try it.
Flying mostly on Grey squirrels it is probably a much safer proposition. The span of a Harris is enough to wrap the squirrel up pretty well. They are much smaller than a fox squirrel.
I hope this helps you understand why size is a factor. They are no better at CATCHING just better at holding on and fighting. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away