Upset with sponsor over mews

[downsouthnow]

I have a new red tail and until now have been keeping him in a make shift mews that I got free from someone on craigslist. My sponsor has an incredible mews that obviously took some time and attention to build. Over the year or so we've been flying and hunting together I feel we've developed a decent friendship and being relatively close to the same age has helped. He's come by my house and met my girlfriend and I've met his whole family.

We've been talking about building my mews and I've saved up for all the materials. He's promised that he'll help me make it look just like his and I've guaranteed him I'll do all the backbreaking labor and he can simply be the foreman. Recently we were talking and setting up a time to build the mews, so of course I was very excited. It was then that he began to tell me that he'll give me the friend discount of only 30/hour to work on my mews and it should take 3-4 days. . . He wasn't kidding.

Did I delude myself in to thinking that as my sponsor he should/would help me do it for free? In the end he would be expecting somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 for his time and expertise. I can't afford that. I'll of course have to build it on my own, but I didn't feel comfortable knowing the specs and putting in what's best for my bird without a sponsor supervising. I've read up on building a mews though and will make it to the best of my knowledge with one of my other buddies who won't charge me.

Please tell me this isn't normal. I feel somewhat afloat. I can't piss him off, it took me almost 6 months to find a sponsor! Mostly I am just venting. This is a very tough hobby and so far very unfriendly to a rookie. I am looking forward to that generals license now more than ever.

[Falcon Boy]

I've never heard of a sponsor charging to help build a mews...

[dirthawker]

well you shouldn't expect the sponsor to help build the mew but for him to charge you to build the mew is a new one on me. my sponsor wasn't there to build the mew but I didn't really need the help and it was a ways to go for her to help.

on a side note though if I can get payed for it stormcloud you owe me $1000.00. course I guess I should have gotten money up front lol.

[Bob Dale]

downsouthnow said:

...This is a very tough hobby and so far very unfriendly to a rookie. I am looking forward to that generals license now more than ever.

This is no hobby. It's an addiction... the neatest one in the world! And we were all rookies once. Rookiness just keeps coming back atcha in this sport. When i got my first falcon, i was a rookie again. With my first eagle... you get the picture. Embrace your inner rookie!

That being said; is your sponsor a carpenter? Is that how he makes his living? If so, i can understand why he would charge you for his expertise and i wouldn't condem him for it.
As a sponsor, i think that it is my responsibility to assist in any way i can to research, train, direct or advise. I don't think it's my responsibility to do any thing else. I have two apprentices this year. I helped them draw out their mews plans. When they were in the building mode, i stopped by several times to check their progress. But i wasn't able to help in the actual construction effort. I would have had it been feasable. But, alas.
But that's just me. Your sponsor is obviously different. Don't get too down on him/her.

[crbhawking]

I to am a rookie and I've found that some falconers are nicer than others and sometimes though they aren't your sponsor they to can help you and I actually depend on people that aren't neccessarely my sponsor to help me, though my sponsor is very open, many falconers have helped me through procceses when my sponsor couldn't make it. though your sponsor should help you, he should give you directions and the rest is up to you. you shouldn't depend on him to build it with you, maybe a picture of his mews and a few phone calls along with maybe him checking on you every so often is really all he should do, he shouldn't be there that long, he's there to give you pointers and help you, part of this sport you will come to like is that it is an independent sport and making costomizing all your equipment will help you to appreciate it and I've found it more fun to make my equipment and mews, for I feel proud of it. Basicly your sponsor is only there to give pointers and help every so often, not do falconry for you and you really will find that this is a sport that you can costomise and that you make your own. No one should have the same training or falconry tequniques as the other. unless that's all you know, for instance my traing tequnique is made of probably 50 or so tequniques, from books, forum members and other falconers, along with about a quarter of the sponsor's tequneque.

[Avatar of Shibby]

My sponcer once told me that this is a 'gifting' sport, and that some sponcers expect payment in diffrant ways. His sponcer 'barrowed' his GH and BC. My sponser has never asked or demanded any thing from me, but I helped him move into his new house, and build his new mews. He has the best on the fly construction I've ever seen in my life.

[miket307]

crbhawking said:

though your sponsor should help you, he should give you directions and the rest is up to you. maybe a picture of his mews and a few phone calls along with maybe him checking on you every so often is really all he should do, he shouldn't be there that long, he's there to give you pointers and help you.

It's a fine line on not offending your sponsor and getting his "blessing" on your new mews. I'd think about what cbrhawking suggested and maybe just get him to work up the plans and stop by here an there to check in on things. You do all the digging for the frame-work, the cutting and measuring (get a little extra lumber for this ;D), and still use his design. Say that someone else offered to help or with Christmas coming up money is tight and that you will be doing all the construction and he can handle the planning that way he will not need to be there all day for 3 or 4 days. Good luck with the build!

[Isobael]

I don't know about anyone else or anywhere else, but here, all I have to do is let out a general call of help and I'd have hubby and his friends knock out a mews in about a day. All I'd need to do is feed them and supply them with beer in payment.

Have a general diagram or plan and make a call to friends, offering food and drink for their help.

My sponsor has been great about letting me pick his brain. He's sketched out diagrams for an indoor "mews" for when I get a kestrel, given me pointers on changes I could make, what I can get away with and can't get away with with the state, and never charged me. In fact, he's given me two nice hoods (although not for kestrels), he's going to give me some 'roo hide for the anklets and jesses to get me started, and even given us his sons' two ball pythons and their tank when the sons lost interest in them.

I have heard of sponsors charging for their time, but don't know anyone in particular.

If he lived a distance from you, maybe offering gas money to come out and check on it, but I wouldn't pay him if he's not building it for you.

Definitely explain that your money's tied into materials and with Xmas coming up, it's tight and you can't afford to pay him for his supervision. Do offer to fill his gas tank for coming out a few times to inspect. That's the least I would do, since gas is pricey and it would be polite.

[downsouthnow]

Thanks for all the replies. This helps me see the scenario from different points of view and just generally helps me feel less anxious. I never intended to have him do the hard work and I have friends who would be there in a flash with nothing more than pizza, beer, and a reason to get together. Also, I didn't assume that just becuse he's my sponsor he was required to help. It was the fact that until now he had always just made it seem like a given that he would enjoy helping. His supervision on the project was all I really wanted.

As far as location goes, he's located about 12 miles from me and he isn't a carpenter by trade. Most of my frustration is based on the idea that I thought him and I had established a friendship, which now that I'm saying aloud sounds somewhat sissy-ish. It's the truth though. I've helped friends build decks, pour concrete, put up sheds and pergolas, you name it. It was alien for me to have a friend (and worse a mentor) ask for money.

I intend to thank him for the offer but let him know money is too tight. So I'll swing by his house and get dimensions of his mews, pictures, and pry his brain more about specifics. Also, I'll let him know that I'd enjoy having him stop by as often as he'd like to inspect.

This board is a real gem. I appreciate all the benefits I've reaped from it.

[Dodes]

Wow, what a shame. I personally believe in falconers helping falconers as much as possible. There are so few of us, and I think comrodarie is very important. Especially in a sponsor/ apprentice relationship.

I would've tried to find another sponsor, but I realize how hard that can be in certain areas.

I got very lucky with my sponsor, as he has helped me in every step of the way, as much as he possibly could. I intend to be the same way with my first apprentice.

I feel for ya, and good luck.

[genbuteo]

No one in this sport sponsoring an apprentice should never charge or even think about charging them just to help them. We are few and far and yet we are all in the same family in a sport that very few ever experience. We all must NEVER forget regardless if you are an apprentice, general or master falconer that we all started as apprentices. Remember that. It is up to us to show the next future of falconers this sport as we have been shown. I understand that finding a sponsor can be hard, especially not knowing if they will sponsor due to not knowing if that newcomer is really interested or a waste of time. I understand that and that's why I built my mew and all supplies ready beforehand before I found sponsor. That tends to show that they maybe serious knowing that they've done all that work in preparation of apprenticeship. That's why when I sponsor someone, I want to make sure they won't be wasting my time and neglecting this sport.
When I began in the sport, before I even took the test or found a sponsor, I bought all my supplies for the bird along with food and built my mew on my own. How did I know how to build it? I read the rules and regulations and read books on falconry and the pictures of mews and took that into ideas in building my own mew. I suggest that for any new comers that they do research on falconry and mews and look at other peoples ideas so they can have an idea on what's expected, then you can put those ideas into your own mew the way you want it, but at the same time following guidelines. It's not that hard as long as you research, especially with internet these days, you have all you need.
I think you'll be okay though. Just be happy that you have this chance to practice the sport.
Best of luck.

[cjinx]

Having a sponsor before getting your equipment and building you mews is a good thing. They can tell you what is a scam and what is not, they can tell you what you need. Yes I understand sponsors make you work for their commitment, yes getting everything prior would be a selling point . However what if you got the wrong kind of food? What if your sponsor wanted you to get a RT instead of a kestrel? What if your sponsor wanted a bigger mews for your bird. Ect. Sponsors are specific each has his own preference and it is your job to follow his preference not from a book written by someone he may not agree with.
No this post doesn't address the question, of how to solve the sponsor problem, but make sure your sponsor guides you through the process of building a mew or it could turn out to be a catastrophe .

Sorry if I overstepped my parole just my humble worthless 2 cents which should be stuffed in a piggy bank and stowed away so that I can buy a new glove...

[chris]

well as someone who has been bit in the ass from helping someone for nothing and having someone offer to help me in trade for something else down the road, what you've been offered sound pretty good. Even with family it's cash dude. Some family gets a realy good deal others atleast have to cover wages and matterial. Nolonger do I barter, if I do it for nothing I expect and will except nothing, I will nolonger trade labor for labor no longer will I barter with friends and family, unless I don't really care about that relationship.
The worst thing you could do is for a freindship is think you could trade thing time for time. I wouldn't want you giving up your time then coming to me expecting me to come help you when you have something you need to do, nor would I want you feeling that you owned me time for something I helped you with. You're looking at 24 to 32 hr of work well that's almost a week of time I make 25 an hour ( I have been offered up to 30 an hour but that's a different storie) 4 days a lot of my time when I could be doing other things, I'm not putting aside my family for nothing you know. And I wouldn't expect you to do the same.
So don't look at this as an 'I got ya' but look at it as a point at which you can now nagociate terms of payment or just be straight with him and say " I ain't got that kind of cash" It's an invite to be open and honest. He says cash for labour you can do the same with him and he shouldn't object if he does then kick him in the ass and get a new sponcer.

[Mike]

I would consider yourself lucky because my sponsor required my mews and a weathering area be built and inspected by the State before I trapped my first hawk. He also required that I use railroad ties as the foundation. They were definitely hard to work with just one person. The building ended up being 19 feet by 10 feet. It is connected to and matches my house.

[jballone]

mike3 said:

I would consider yourself lucky because my sponsor required my mews and a weathering area be built and inspected by the State before I trapped my first hawk.

I believe ALL states require a mews inspection prior to issuing a trapping permit, so what your sponsor "required" you to do was actually required by law.

Personally, I think a sponsors job is to assist their apprentice in the mews construction. This doesn't necessarily mean to physically help build it but at least give solid construction ideas/plans in order to pass inspection. Sponsoring is a 2-way street.