Post by Master Yarak on Sept 30, 2006 21:04:08 GMT -5
I thought of that too. Fire ants diminished many species where I lived. Deer, quail, rabbits, horned toads, carpenter ants and many other species. Squirrels were the most abundant and there proximity made them attractive. Now however, you are comparing the risk of flying at geese to the risk at flying at squirrels. Go hunt your geese, and whatever else you decide is within your birds ability. It is just the opinion of ONE person. Now that I have met you I know you would feel very bad if Aerial got crippled by a goose. If you can live with that so can she. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
Post by jfneumann57 on Sept 30, 2006 21:14:50 GMT -5
I'm also curious that your first response on this thread was to use a great horn but when I offered other possiblities you immediately jumped to eagles. Why is this?
08 season: 51squirrels 16 rabbits 43miscellaneous
I'm sorry, but you said "it's impossible" when you really meant "I don't know how yet".
Post by Master Yarak on Oct 1, 2006 13:15:45 GMT -5
It was sarcastic... Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
I was trying for geese with my rt hen at one time she was a big girl and I thought she could handle them but I never got her to go after one and I am glad for it. I saw a beautiful gyr/per that had his back broke by a goose and that did it for me. I know rt"s are bigger and tougher but trust me a goose can hurt them badly. Go grab a goose and hold it up to your face see how that feels but think if you were the size of a rt. Rt"s can hold cats and kill them but would you go for that? As falconers we should put our birds best interest first yeah maybe they can but why take such a big chance. As for squirrels with rt"s eastern redtails hunt them often in the wild it is their natural prey and you can put chaps on them to protect them further. I would have to agree the only raptor I feel that can handle a goose safely is the eagle they have the size and power to handle them.
A Gos or a Fergy should be perfectly capable. Gos were classically flown at geese.
There are several UK/european geese that are much smaller than the Canada and probably what is referenced in classic literature is these smaller geese.
In general I agree with Yarak on this one. I've got geese on my permission land but all are too big for Robb (2lb 2oz male RT).
The most important thing to consider IS IT SAFE FOR THE HAWK.
There is always a risk to any slip, just at there is risk for a wild hawk. But it is part of our responsability to understand the risk. We as falconers, know that it is possible to train/convince a hawk to chase/catch things much bigger than they would in the wild. We bring our size and ability to find and flush the quarry to the equasion.
There are so many examples of hawks and falcons taking very large prey (4x hunting weight is very large to me). Sakers on gazell, redtails and harris on blue hare and muntjac deer.
If you are going to go for very large prey, assess the risk.
Your birds fitness
Your birds prey handling and footing
The prey's fitness
Your ability to get to the bird quickly while on the prey to help dispatch.
Obsticles, obstructions and cover that may give the prey and advantage to beat up your hawk
The weight it takes to convince your bird to tackle the prey is also very important.
Hytptheticle: If you are flying a female redtail at 2lb 8oz (40oz, 1135 grams) or more, using the 4xhunting weight you could go for any quarry up to 10lb as long as you can get in and help ASAP. If you have to drop that birds weight to 2lb 4oz (36oz, 1020 grams) to convince her to go for geese, she will not be able to tackle a 10lb goose, as she may be able to catch it but not have enough energy to hold it while you get there.
If any redtail grabs a 24lb goose, it will probably loose the fight and be injured or killed. You won't 'get lucky' and find a 5lb gossling on migration. The sickly and small ones will already have been picked off by nature.
Setting up a hawk to go for an 8lb jack rabbit/hare and getting success is great and everyone would applaude the effort. Setting up a hawk to tackle a goose bigger than 8lb and I for one will call you an idiot.
The Cackling Goose are a great species for falconry. They are larger than most duck species yet not as large as Canada geese. I can't remember the magizine, I think it was American Falconer, but there is an article in there about hunting the Cacklings with Gos hawks. They weigh about 1400 grams which is the size of good sized eastern female RT.
I would not recomend trying any birds on canada geese. I shot a large canada last year and crippled it. I ran out and tackled it, the thing beat me up worse than playing rugby. You should have seen my face looked like somone kicked me good in the side of the face.
I know of one eagle falconer who took a Canadian Goose with his eagle. The set up had to be perfect with a ridge in between the geese and the eagle so the eagle was not visible for the first part of the flight. Once the eagle came over the ridge the geese scattered and flew away. One of them had some kind of problem and was not able to fly at full speed and was the one that got caught by the eagle. According to the eagle falconer the goose barely could get off the ground. The 10 lb female eagle had no problem with the goose. this is the same eagle that has taken fox in Pennsylvaina. I know another falconer whos female ferrug took a few geese last year from the soar.
I would not recomend trying any birds on canada geese. I shot a large canada last year and crippled it. I ran out and tackled it, the thing beat me up worse than playing rugby. You should have seen my face looked like somone kicked me good in the side of the face.
I chased down a goose once while deer hunting. It was bitterly cold, and the lake was frozen, and there was a MOB of geese on it. Well, MOST of them took off, but after the pack was gone, the wind was too much for this last one to get going, so he kept getting blown around as he would try to take off. Eventually I got close enough that I threw my bow on top of him and grabbed him by the neck and spun him. I fail to see how you got the heck beat out of you from a wounded goose.... My face is the last thing that's going to be near him...
Dave Hampton
"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." Edgar Allan Poe