You just totally missed the point here. Who ever said weight training instead of hunting every day? And you think the stamina of a factory worker would be better than a pro athlete?
As the "inventor"/mfg. of The Launcher Leash (TLL in this post) (as featured at Northwoods Falconry" let me clear up some misconceptions about the concept of "weight training" for raptors as well as offer practical comments form observing its use.
For a complete article on why and how I brought this product to be, I refer you to the April, 2007 issue of the North American Falconers Associations "Hawk Chalk" newsletter
Basically in 2005 I had an older (then 20) very good female RT I used for flying cottontails and jackrabbits. A bout at 17 w/WNV and age had decreasd her strength to the point I was considering retiring her. But having myself gone through a "rejuvination" in 1998 at age 53 through rigorous weight and aerobic training, I thought perhaps the same might work for my old girl. After considering several options (ankle weights, "loaded" jesses, etc.) I finally settled on using latex tubing and lead shot to create a super flexible 60 inch (1.5 m) weighted leash that could, with various techniques, duplicate various types of weight and aerobic training. The end result was a bird that could barely fly took a nice 7 lb. (3.2 kg) blacktail jackrabbit at the Texas Hawking Association annual Field Meet in Abilene, TX.
I have since used The Launcher Leash on 4 more RTs with very good results and have likewise received much favorable feedback from people who have bought and used a TLL.
Now to some points raised in this message board.
1. Potential injury to joints - The gradual increase in weight being lifted during a "jump up" does not "shock" the leg joings in any way. In fact, over time, by properly timing the "catch" to the glove at the top of a jump up, the legs are actually strengthened. Also, consider that in the wild these birds will, using a head wind, jump into the air and carry quarry much larger than a TLL back to the nest. The current version is standardized at 13.5 oz. (383 g). For smaller male falcons who wanted to try a TLL, I've made some lighter versions that have worked well w/these birds.
2. Does weight training truly benefit raptors? Well, falconers have been doing jump ups for thousands of years. Adding a weighted leash increases the efficiency and effectiveness of this exercise. And for all who say, just fly the bird hard, I say, do you ever have family or work matters, available daylight, or bad weather prevent you from hunting or exercising your bird outdoors? Of course you have! And more often than you would like to admit. In fact one of the main reasons for the creation of TLL was that our falconry birds, no matter how hard they are flown, never get the same exercise as they do in the wild. In fact, all too many raptors are in fact "Perch Potatoes", just as many people are "Couch Potatoes". A TLL can be used any time, EVEN during the molt, to keep birds fit and comfortable with you, and takes much less time than doing 100 or more traditional jump ups (which I believe must be very boring to the bird).
3. Vertical vs. horizontal flight exercise. Again, I reference that we've been using jump ups for thousands of years. I have seen/felt the increase in raptor pectoral development from using a TLL. I have had rehabbers use it to get seemingly impossibly muscle deficient birds (brought in at near death starvation weights) back to flying condition. And, this past season I experimented with some of my RTs using a TLL as a drag line while flying to me. For RTs, Harris Hawks, and Goshawks being able to "go vertical" with strength and confidence after a miss can result in more catches. I've certainly seen this. The confidence from being FIT translates into more aggressive, persistent pursuit. For falcons, I've had comments that the birds mount stronger and quicker to their pitch.
4. Final comments. Is a TLL the "ultimate" raptor conditioning tool? I don't know. But I do know it really does improve strength and aerobic conditioning of my birds that translated into some amazing flights and catches that I don't think would have taken place without the use of TLL. When used though the molt (an every other day exercise/gorge cycle) the bird stays strong and comes to flying weight quicker because more muscle mass means a higher resting metabolic rate. This also translates into easier "cycling" around a relatively high hunting weight for days on/off from hunting. I've seen lots "low" condition birds in my 47 years as a falconer that just plain lack the strength and aerobic condtioning to be good hunters.
I'm in my 60's now and wouldn't still be in the field if I didn't keep myself fit. So, what do you want your raptor to be a "Perch Potato" or a fit, solid athlete eager to do the job?
I welcome any questions or discussions on what I've provided for this section.
If it was a "Perch Potato" to begin with, why would your product make it anything else. Or maybe after using your product now its a "fit perch potato". As for using jump ups for hundreds/thousands of years, not all of us do those jump ups or think they are necessary. If this is your product or invention, you wouldn't want to say anything negative about it? Not slamming you or anything along those lines, just don't think my birds have to be "Mr. Universe" in order to catch game.
Post by dirthawker on Jun 13, 2008 17:09:06 GMT -5
I have to agree I have had very few days that the bird was ready to fly that I haven't. I have flown in rain, snow, 50 MPH winds and just about any thing that can be thrown at me. it may have sucked for me to be out there but the wild birds still have to do it. the only times that I haven't been out is when I have been sick and on my death bed. last yr I was out flying with the stomach flu and blowing chunks. my brother in law was out the day after his wife had him fixed lol. the first 2 weeks of the yr it is always a lil slow but they get in shape real quick.
Yarakone, I met you at the CHC meet at topaz lake in JANUARY. We had a nice long discussion about this topic. i was always a firm believer that adding weights etc could possibly lead to unnecesarry injurys. But after talking with you for a while and hearing your experiences with the TLL i was intrigued and later changed my mind about it. This year when i pull my bird from the mew i will begin training using the TTL. Last year it took my mrt several weeks to get back up to speed. And i hunt almost everyday. If i can build extra stamina and strenth quicker, then all the better.
By the way, i liked the chapter you wrote in North American Falconry and Hunting Hawks, Two Buteos.
raptrlvr and dirthawker2004, you are misinterpreting what I posted. "Perch Potato" is simply a term I thought might connote the condition of many birds out there, especially when compared to wild birds. 2nd, recall that I "invented" TLL not for my own ego or to make a lot of money, but to see if there was a way to get my old, formerly excellent, bird back in decent hunting condition. The results were good enough, that, yes, I have become a "promoter" of raptor fitness using TLL. And each passing season only convinces me more of its effectiveness.
The "" marks around invented is because the weighted leash concept is really quite old. Pakistani falconers have used a knotted cotton rope that they control the weight of by soaking progressively more sections in water. A cheap, neat way to do it, but a bit messy.
The Launcher Leash represents a simple, long lasting (original prototype has 8 bird years on it; i.e. multiple birds/season worked with it) modern materials way to provide exercise when you cannot otherwise get out or are seeking a measurable way (# of jump ups, height, etc.) to see if the bird is getting stronger.
My enthusiasm for the product comes from the feedback I've had from users and my own experience. I have a particularly nice late taken (12/06) 42 oz (1,192 g) female RT that has shown really good results with it. I have made a couple of heavier TLLs, 19 oz. (539 g) and 26 oz. (738 g) that I tried with her much like you or I would in choosing between light weight/high reps for endurance training or heavy weight/fewer reps for strength training. The results were pretty amazing. After about 4 weeks this bird could pull BOTH the 19 and a standard 13.5 oz LL TOGETHER multiple times. Think about that for a moment: That's over 2 lbs being lifted straight up and clear of the ground. To watch this bird handle a jackrabbit is astounding.
Oh, and here's an interesting observation I wasn't expecting: My little tiercel RT can lift just about as much as the big females can! The secret is a much faster wingbeat and, probably, a little testosterone driven male ego! Seriously, there is almost no difference in what the tiercel and female can lift.
You two may have a work schedule, quarry, country, family responsibility situation, etc. that lets you fly every day, and therefore your birds are probably in pretty good condition, but many others don't have your good fortune and their bird's conditioning suffers because of it.
And before you dismiss the utility of The Launcher Leash for you, consider that - 1. Intermewed birds do face LONG periods of lesser quality exercise during the molt. 2. Muscle mass automatically decreases with lack of exercise and takes TIME and EFFORT to restore. 3. Higher muscle mass increases resting metabolic rate (also called basal metabolism) which means a higher caloric intake need and a higher (musclewise) yarak "set point". We all would agree the "higher" we can fly a bird, consistent with it putting forth good effort, is usally a good thing for flights requiring strength and endurance.
At the 2007 NAFA and California Hawking Club Meets that I attended, I had multiple people at both Meets spontaneously come up to me and tell me how their LL improved their bird's flying capability. And one of the most respected U.S. longwingers said it made a huge difference in keeping his bird in condition when work situations kept him from flying the bird regularly for multiple days. In October, 2007 my wife and I went to the Czech Republic and Austrian Meets where I both donated several LLs as raffle prizes and sold quite a few more. I was told many times by serious, studious European falconers that the premise for the product was a solid idea.
Finally, if you don't want to buy one, you can always make one yourself for significantly less than Northwoods or I sell them for, IF you can access the components easily and cheaply to build one or two. I have had several buyers tell me that's what they started to do, but saw it wasn't worth the time and effort to do it and just ordered one from Northwoods.
Oh, and in my 47 years of falconry, I have, and still do, hawk in any weather or terrain that has any chance of success. After all, this isn't a sport or hobby we share - it's a PASSION! It's just that now that I am older, and hopefully wiser for it, that I can more easily embrace ideas that lead to more success, whether mine or someone else's.
Thanks for listening to my reply to your comments!
Modoc - Thanks for the kind words on our meeting and TLL. Maybe your "endorsement" will carry some weight w/the two falconers who didn't think much of the idea. Hope your bird(s) are doing well. Mine are molting up a storm. I hope to have them ready by mid October for a trip to SD/ND, then on to NAFA in Amarillo. Saving up my coin of the relm for all the diesel fuel I'll need for this coming hawking season!
Your product may be great for those who follow the need for it. When I take my birds out, they only have to be fit enough to take one rabbit. I try not to do multiples although it does happen occassionally. My birds have never had a problem doing that. Its kind of like the Vitahawk thing, some swear by it others don't use it at all. I don't use it and don't think the birds need anything that they don't get in the wild. Modoc's endorsement will not change my mind even if he had success with it. I am just not a believer in jump ups or weight training of any kind. My birds do all right without all that stuff. I am in a position to fly every day whenever I want. I put the female HH away because she had very little tail left from catching all the jacks {39 blacktails in her shortened first year and 21 cottontails} this past season. We are all individuals and we all look at things differently.
No problem, raptrlvr. Sounds like you've got a system that gives you what you want - and that's what counts. Hope we get to meet sometime. Adios and may that female HH have a super clean molt!
Post by Falcon Boy on Jun 13, 2008 23:35:56 GMT -5
My falcon has never been weight trained, jump up-ed or anything of the sort, but can fly for hours and take quadruples or more, in his first year none-the-less. Just ask anyone who's seen him fly [raptrlvr, jfseaman]
I guess it just comes down to how often you fly your bird and what you expect from it. If you fly once per week [in which case you should re-evaluate why you have a bird in my opinion] you shouldn't expect it to be as fit as a bird that is flown more.
Last Edit: Jun 13, 2008 23:39:14 GMT -5 by Falcon Boy
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
Falcon Boy, ANY additional training techniques, whether it be kiting, ballooning, jump ups (with or w/o weights), etc. are just that - additions to what comes "naturally" to any bird - flying. Such training may encompass trying to improve condition strength, etc. OR to "shape" behavior. I've caught a LOT of game in 47 years of falconry w/o any special regular training. But when my great old game hawk of 20 years seemed to "run out of gas" due to age, and, more importantly I think, a bout with WNV, just flying her wasn't doing the job. So, the weighted leash (TLL) jump up idea was tried and the results were very good. When trying it with younger, healthy birds I also saw improvements in strength, persistence in the chase, handling of challenging quarry (jacks) when caught, easier weight managment for the molt and yarak set point, and a closer working relationship w/the bird and myself. And, I know this is a very subjective observation, the birds seem more confident and content. It's like they KNOW they are strong and able to better pursue quarry.
What I would really like is for someone in the biological sciences who had the resources/equipment to scientifically test pre/post conditioned birds in such areas as %body fat, % muscle, blood gases, exercise byproducts like lactic acid, etc. Knowledge is empowering. It helps us make (wise) choices.
I applaud your devotion to our sport as a second year General Class falconer and your willingness to serve as an administrator on this site (FYI, please correct spelling of title from Weight Traning to Weight Training). When I entered the sport in the early '60s much of the thought, techniques, etc. was governed by old books and traditions, some of which were bedrock observations, while others were at best based on poor understanding of raptors' true biology/physiology. I have tried to remain open to new ideas about equipment, training, hunting, etc. no matter how successful or satisfied I was with how I was/am doing things.
Again, thanks for your help on this message board.
Post by dirthawker on Jun 14, 2008 15:52:25 GMT -5
I guess you have a point it is just not for me but I will give you credit for ingenuity. it is not for me but that is just my personal opinion. as for getting the bird back up to speed. I never found it that hard or that time consuming. as well as it gives my fat butt some time to get my self back up to speed also, but that is another story lol. you are right I have the time terrain and few family and job obligations to be able to fly 4-6 times a week. I am not married nor any kids. cant find a woman that will put up with me nor me put up with them. the last girl friend told me that I had to take my bird and put it outside or she was leaving. I told her that the bird, dogs, and guns where here befor she got here and would be there after she left. the life of a falconer is a dedicated one, you have to dedicate time and energy to the lifestyle. if a person cant do that they should not be doing falconry. I can see your point for the LL and feel that some can use it I just feel that with my flying schedule it is not needed for my purposes. just my opinion I am not trying to slam you or your product. as I sad earlier I give you pops for your ingenuity. I do not use the jump ups, kites, balloons, or any of the other stuff I just figure that good hard flying does the job. I also don't really hunt from the fist my birds hunt from the trees but preferably from a soar. I am going to try to get a passage fruge this yr just for the soar hawking.
dirthawker2004 - just did a mapquest on Payson, AZ. You live in a very nice area! I've driven I17 between Phoenix and Flagstaff before. Were you at NAFA this year in Alamosa? There was a guy from SE Colordo there who did a fantastic presentation on soar hawking with a ferruginous. Just like flying a little eagle. If you are thinking of doing this, I'd give him a ring and talk about how he did it.
We hunt primarily from trees here in IN also for cottontails and squirrels, but out West it's mostly been fist hawking for me over the years for jacks. The LL has been a boon for giving the bird the oomph to get back up after a miss on a tree flight into heavy cover. Most RTs don't make a second try in these situations, but mine often do.
Regarding the female persuation and falconry, it is indeed hard to find one who will tolerate it. I am quite fortunate. My wife and I celebrate our 35th anniversary next month, and she has more than tolerated the birds all these years. My business required a lot of travel, so she would take care of them while I was gone. For years she would occasionally hunt with me, but in 2004 after coming back from a bout with breast cancer she nudged me one October night on the couch while we were watching TV and said, "I want to fly a bird." I had an open spot on my permit, so I trapped a nice tiercel the next day. She had it manned perfectly in less than 10 days and we went hunting the end of the 3rd week. We had to go out together of course until she got her permit, but that season her bird took 50 cottontails, which is a nice score for a neophyte! Unfortunately this bird suddenly dropped dead of a stroke or aneurism the next fall. Her new bird is a female RT and is another good performer with nice manners. She really has the touch on the manning thing. One rule she instituted was not EVER feeding the bird in the mew or picking it up w/food in the mew. The result is a bird that bates very little, which is nice compared to the typical leash banging we've all seen. The mew is just a home to the hawk, not a restaurant! I thank the Good Lord above every day that he put us together!
Well, I envy your location and time to hawk. Even retired now my wife and I are busy w/5 grandkids a lot and have to plan our trips west w/our 5th wheel for our jack hawking expeditions. I have a dear aunt who lives in Phoenix, so maybe we need to put AZ on a trip for this winter so we could have a chance to meet and hawk together. NAFA is in Amarillo, TX this year, which is about 600 miles for you and 1,000 for me (That'll be about $450 in diesel to pull the trailer there!)
Post by dirthawker on Jun 14, 2008 17:28:06 GMT -5
sounds good you get over this way look me up. if you are into the soar hawking flagstaff is some of the best soaring country. down here is good but flag is the bomb. I wasn't at the NAFA this yr but going to try this next nov. who gave the presentation I did read an article some yrs ago about a guy flying a fruge but haven't been able to find the article again. I have talked a bit to steve saunders and he has been a great resource on them. everyone has told me to get an eyass but AZ you can only take passage. so its either take the NAFA trip money and go to WY or go to nafa so I am going to try a passage first.
I am just not a believer in jump ups or weight training of any kind. My birds do all right without all that stuff.
I agree with you. I've never seen the need either.
I was at a raptor conference some years ago, and had the opportunity to view several radiographs of hairline fractures to femurs and tibias on falconry hawks from doing jump ups. And there has indeed been ligament and tendon injuries from weighting hawks' legs. Personally, I see no reason to chance hurting my birds needlessly.