My eagles only eat 2 times a week. I alternate between cottontail and jack. Every once in a while, I'll throw in a squirrel or pigeon or duck if available or maybe a small cowbird.. That is about what they would get in the wild around here with maybe an occasional cat. I do not give supplements because they are not available in the wild and the {wild}eagles around here seem to do OK without them. Now before anyone goes off on me about that last statement, just remember, that is my opinion. You may think differently and thats OK with me. When I fly the HH, he gets the cowbirds when I call call him back to me. When I crop him up, sometimes he gets the cowbirds or whatever is available in the freezer or what he catches that day. This seems to have worked for me over the years and the birds take game, have plenty of energy, appear to be healthy and feather decently during the moult. What more could I ask for.
Well, Since FB wants to continue to play the game, I called him a Pompus ASS because he resorted to name calling to me as well as being a wise ass. As for me calling you a backstabber, It was in referance to your statement that you had told me to quit using that type of perch design and I posted a picture of you standing next to me while I was using that perch and you never once told me to not use it. I have and still do use that temp perch when neccisary with all my birds and I know several others that do the same. So, for you to help light the torch by stating something other than the truth was stabbing me in the back since I posted that you had, if fact, not said anything to me about the perch. FB removed the pictures as he see's fit to benefit his argument as you can see now since he posted the last comment in order to set me up without an explanation. Way to go FB.....your a real man......
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion................ and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."
I still do not see how aqnyone on this list could simply say to tanaro that "well, it's OK ias long as you learned you learned your lesson" BS!!! He was negligent with his bird and it cost him...plain and simple. If you can't see it, then you are turning a blind eye. One person flaming the poster? Yea, that's what worries me as I seem to be the only one who see's the problem.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion................ and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."
I'm with the weasel on this one. A 6 foot leash is rediculous. There are more leg injuries to raptors from improper teathering than from any other cause. Springs and bungees on the leashes only increase the risks due to the fact that they "snap back" creating further stress. That injury was totaly avoidable.
Weasel, Weasel, Weasel. So it was YOU who left the almighty flaming torch to my post. My only regret is that I didn't get to read it before it was deleted. From what I've heard it was totaly out of line. I did however read your last reply and can see that my original post was grossly taken out of context. I blame this on myself, since my original post was a blanket statement on certian events. Foolish of me not to think that someone would nit pick every word and become Judge, Jury, and falconry Police. I also didn't think I was going to be questioned and condemed to death for the post, thus is why I made the second post claryfing some points. Now it seems I'm changing the story in your opinion. I am going to shock some people by saying that you are RIGHT about the length of the leash and yes I have been complacent about that. But let me get a few things straight that you have seem to taken out of context. The perch is 3 feet long, but it doesn't float in the air. I have to bang it in the ground about a 1ft/2ft . That gives me about a 1 foot to 2 ft height from the ground. It sits slightly higher than her bow perch. I do use this setup often when I am working with her. I do not leave her on this perch unless I am with her. No where in my post did I state she was UNATTENDED. I never said that, You assumed it. I was 20 feet away from her when the accident took place. The leash is 6 feet long (sorry I confused you by using the word "several" in my original post. Several meaning more than 3.) Normally the leash is only 3 feet in length when the spring is tied in. I leave a 3 foot slack for the spring to stretch out. Since the coil was becoming worn, I removed it, thus giving the leash the extra 3 feet that I normally would not have done but since I was going to replace the new coil at this time, I didn't expect her to take off. There is my mistake. She bated before attaching the new coil. I still have the perch sittiing in the exact spot since the accident and I will post pictures. I respect every one on this board and enjoy reading posts by Eddie (birdguy) Wolf, Falconboy, Yarak, Raptrlvr, and others to boot including yourself. Most of the people I have mentioned I dealt with through emails and phone conversations. I have even spoken to you by phone some time ago. Yes, I can take criticism but chastising is another story. Misleading statements and putting words in my mouth don't go over with me to well either and that is where I have a problem. I beleive in your post you made a comment about me blaming people on this forum for the injury and that you wanted me to explain myself.?. Here's one better. How about YOU go through my posts and tell me and the other memebers of this board WHERE I blamed ANYBODY but myself. I don't know what you were drinking when you made that comment but I can assure you that was a statement conjured up in your head. So go back through the post and find where I said the bird was UNATTENDED, and where I stated PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM are to blame. There is your challenge for today. I warn you though, you will be searching with no outcome to supporting your basis. I do appreciate your concern over injuries that occur through careless handeling and so you should be heard. Its just the way you say it. I never had a problem with you in the past, and even after this I won't have a problem with you but, I can't sit back and let you make inaccurate statements about my ordeal, for others to get the wrong impression. And for the record, I've got a good arm, played minor league ball as a pitcher. But my intent is not to throw stones but simply to state that I'm sure in your number of years in falconry, you..yourself like everyone else has done bone headed things when handling their bird at one time or another. Multiple mistakes? not really, just the one if any, but I aknowledged other surrounding problems that could have been. Hell, no sense in boring the other members with this, you got my email and I think you may even have my phone number if not let me know and I will give it to you if you want to delve further. Either or, it doesn't matter. Mike. PS. Damn, my spell check will not function. Anybody know why that is. Post too long? What?
As a newcomer to this thread, it seems prety pointless carrying on with the conversation if the inital post has been edited and content removed,
Reading into it by comments made after this post was edited the bird was teathered to a T perch 3 ft high high off the ground? with a extreemly long leash? long enough to allow the hawk to reach/go around a tree?
If I said I had an eight foot perch and people said WOW!!!! yadda,yadda...and then I said...Oh, but there is seven foot below ground....Understand that ALOT of the things in your post are VERY out of context with what you apparently really meant......as for the comment about you leaving the bird alone....Thank FB for that one as he said he had gotten that from you.... I appologise if this is not your intent, but your whole post seems to be full of misconstuable content that points to nothing but step after step of mistakes put together to create one major incident. Your first post was very poorly written and it was open for anyone to read and construe the same as I. A little more detail in your post would of made this alot more understandable, but in the end, it was still a lack of judgment that caused the bird to break it's leg. You and everyone on here will make mistakes, that it correct. But some should be self evidently hazardous. So in final, I will state a few things I got out of your initial post... T perch ...bad Height of perch....bad Long leash....bad Objects within it's bating distance...bad..... These are the main object you discuss in your post and the ones that stand out for critisism. In future, you might want to try detailing these a little more....especially on a subject as sensative as causing injury to a bird. Cheers PS....spell check would not work for me either.....I think it quit when it saw the argument..LOL!
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion................ and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."
Diablo. I used the spring leash all year even during manning. This adds no extra stress to the bate but only reduced it. If anything, the leash did not contain the spring this one time and BINGO a broken leg. Now, I'm not a rocket scientists but I would say it was more than coincidental. The problem with a bungee or spring perch is it COULD allow the bird to claw further while tension is at its peak,, then causing a possible spring back. Not, on the initial bate. So let me get this straight.. A sudden dead stop in motion is safer on the leg than a gradual slowing down one? I didn't get a degree in phyisics but I can bet the law of physics will disagree with you. The reason people don't like the bungee leashes and such is becasue after the bate,, some birds try to grip and claw the carpet or whatever and try to pull even further causing more resistance. That is where you can run into a problem. I know somepeople swear by them and others loath them. Matter of preference really. Just curious, when doing fly ups and such, what, do you keep your bird on a two foot leash?? Damn, thats really giving the bird a work out. Then again, don't make it out like I'm leaving my bird weathering unattended on a six foot leash. I never stated that. I was trying to fix a problem with the leash as soon as I discovered it. The spring had nothing to do with the accident. Unavoidable??? I didn't realize you were there. So how is it unavoidable if the bird had a weak spot in the bone from a deffeciency as an eyass. If the vet is right and that was the case then the accident would have happened sooner or later. I wan't going to have the test run to find out when the simple solution was to feed more calcium rich food. Hell, during creance trianing, alot of falconers use the double perch, ring and wire hookup. The actual design is in HAFHH. Just in case you don't know what that is,,, that is when you take a hundred foot cord, put a ring on it and then tie both ends to opposite perches. The bird is tethered to the ring and can fly the full 100 feet. What happens if the bird over shoots her perch or the falconers glove, or she veers off for some trees? Same result could happen. I could be wrong, but I think I've read where someone actually uses this design to weather thier bird, giving it free range to fly from one side of the yard to the other. Doesn't make any of it right, but its just an example of what different people do. Repairing a leash because there is a problem would seem less of a risk. My statement was a reason for someone not to use a long leash because of what happened to me with a six foot leash., The reason it was a six foot leash was because of the slack I took out of it trying to make a repair which would of brought it back to its original 3. I'm sorry I wasn't very clear about every aspect in my original post but I didn't think people would go apeSH!@t. Please forgive me O Holier than thou. I repent. I repent. Damn, this spell check.
You seem to be another one of those people who already knows it all, so I won't attempt to educate you anymore. Keep doing everything just like you have been doing. Your bird will be the only one that suffers from it. The simple fact that you teathered your bird with a 6 foot leash speaks volumes of you.
If the post is short, the spell check works. If it is long ,, it won't for some reason. Weasel, the reason why the original post was vague was simply because the accident happened over a month ago. I saw the pics and thought I would briefly point out some things that went wrong. Sure, I left out alot because I didn't feel necessary at the time to go into the whole step by step situation................................Mass , no this is not just about right. You may not know what the deleted content was but Weasel, Myself and a few others are well in tune with this thread. Weasel is right about the original post being vague. It left alot open for people to assume the situation. I should have been more careful about how I worded it. No, the leash is not extremely long, The T perch is a 3 foot perch (out of the ground) that I use when working on the bird from time to time. I normally tether her to her bow but do use this make shift T when needed. So basicly you are sorta of course (not completely) but I take the blame since I wasn't very precise in the original post. I just didn't forsee getting blasted under the circumstances of why I posted it. I posted as a reminder not to take things for granted or this can happen to you. It wasn't posted as a """ gee, what happened, My bird broke her leg, I don't uderstand.. please,, someone help me figure out what went wrong. To think, I was beginning to get bored with this board. Ha.
You seem to be another one of those people who already knows it all, so I won't attempt to educate you anymore.
Educate me? Is that what you are doing. I don't recall asking for your assistance. I only read a post that you made calling a 6 foot leash ridiculous. I never read anything in your post that was even remotely close to being educational or an attempt at a sensible opinion. I thought I already made clear why the leash was a length of 6 feet. Why you would post further on the subject is beyond me. KNOW IT ALL?? Why am I a know it all. Why? because I was there and saw the entire events unfold and I explain them as they happened and you call me a know it all? Or is the fact that your opinion of springs and bungees are a bad idea and only your opinion on that matter is the correct one?? Some people like them, some don't. I know its worked well for me and others as well. But thats ok if you do not prefer them but don't call people know it alls because someone tells you their experience with them. If you were being constructive in your post instead of coming off as arrogant then I would listen to what you have to say.
Last Edit: Jun 13, 2006 15:41:06 GMT -5 by Falcon Boy
Post by Avatar of Shibby on Jun 13, 2006 16:30:19 GMT -5
iamtheweasel said:
FB removed the pictures as he see's fit to benefit his argument as you can see now since he posted the last comment in order to set me up without an explanation. Way to go FB.....your a real man......
Here we are that picture that was deleted. I remeber a lil bit of your reply this. Some problems that I see about this are. That you have your bird is perched on a stick with eletrical tape that's inserted about 1'-1.5' underneath your bed liner. the leash (about 1' lenth it apears) is attached to the tail gate wire thingy (parden my defintion of that). Finaly the bird is hooded. Now I'm pretty sure every falconer has seen a hood. So lets play out this scenerio here that I've thought of. You guys are not near that bird on that perch, not nescarly far away but about 30 yards. Ya'll are all having a intresting conversation. Your truck bed liner built to take presure from the out side not the inside. Lets say for some reason it gives out, and down that cane goes. Now since you didn't have the leash attached to the cane, but to that wire on the truck bed, the bird can't see because of that hood either and most likely won't find another place to perch. Since you leash is only a foot long, and I'm guessing your truck bed is about 2' to the ground, so there's bird your bird left hanging up side down. Since you're in that conversation and didn't hear the cane falling maybe because traffic was near by or the conversation was just that good. You'll come back to a dead bird. All because the truck bed liner snapped off from being used how it wasn't built to be. Hopefuly though you'd hear the problem and get to it imdatly as tanaro did, but then the damage is already done and you'd prolly come out of it with alot of broken feathers at leaste from it flapping around the metal truck. You may says just based on chance, but wasn't tanaro's too that he didn't have the spring in becasue he was going to replace it. If can happen it will happen!!! I'm in no way suporting tanaro. What happened is his fault, and he's payed the price of that. He admits to the fault thought. Which is alot better than most people. You on the other hand weseal are just being a jerk. You are not a perfect falconer in any means, but this is not the place to bring up some of the problems I've seen with your handling. You may be about to reply that I'm a novice don't even have my permit yet, and that I have no clue what I'm talking about. I will let you know that I'm not blind and can very clearly see problems with handling of birds, the training of an eyass or the making of a dutch hood might be above me at this time, but this is not!
Post by Falcon Boy on Jun 13, 2006 16:36:43 GMT -5
iamtheweasel said:
Well, Since FB wants to continue to play the game, I called him a Pompus ASS because he resorted to name calling to me as well as being a wise ass.
FB removed the pictures as he see's fit to benefit his argument as you can see now since he posted the last comment in order to set me up without an explanation. Way to go FB.....your a real man......
Weasel, i deleted the posts so this rediculas bullSH!@t that is now going on would not happen. I did not do it to leave you "without an explanation" You had the option to PM me, or PM/email/call Tanaro2 and then the public would not see how arrogant you were being, but you chose to post AND bring a friend with you to make similiar posts
You seem to be another one of those people who already knows it all, so I won't attempt to educate you anymore. Keep doing everything just like you have been doing. Your bird will be the only one that suffers from it. The simple fact that you teathered your bird with a 6 foot leash speaks volumes of you.
Diablo-Did you not read the previous posts? Where did he claim to know it all or even come across as such? He stated a pure fact- The reason bunjee leashes can be dangerous is when the bird lands and keeps trying to claw its way forward. Tanaro2 stated "I know somepeople swear by them and others loath them" Please explain how that is being a know-it-all, to me, and appearntly the rest of the world except you two, it acknowledges that people form their own opinions.
Weasel- This thread would not have gone so offtrack and became such a mess if you would look at how you word your posts. Saying something like "hey that was probably not the best choice" would have been more acceptable than " You want constructive criticism? Here it is" Honestly it made you sound more like a 12yr old who thinks he's better than the world than a 31yr old with a brain. Maybe you should try typing your responses with your brain instead of your ego. It might make you come across less arrogent. You are by no means the perfect falconer. Nor am I, or any human on earth. Yet you post like your are the best, and everyone else is 2nd rate. Everyone makes mistakes, Tanaro2 just tried to help people learn from his.
One more thing- please stop making stuff up, or bending the words around. I in no way said that Tanaro left his bird alone. I said the bird was NOT left unattended, so dont go saying that i said things i didn't. You also said that he partly blamed the forum, which he never did. Read the posts, and quote the posts.
Last Edit: Jun 13, 2006 17:47:05 GMT -5 by Falcon Boy
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
LOL! I could make a full time job out of this. Tanaro, I think what was said about the bungee leash is this. It is not the fact that it stretches, but that the bird will stretch it on the bate and when the bird hits the ground, it pulls back and causes stress upon the tarsus. So, since I have not seen you set up, I cannot comment on the amount of stretch or the force of spring back. Dustin, as for your comments on the picture, I will reiterate on the comments I made back to FB. 1 the perch is not in the bed liner only 1-1/2 foot. It is in about 4-4 1/2 foot. that staff is a 6' in length. So your whole unfounded argument is without merit as you where not there, you have not done anything similar since you have no bird, and you know first hand that I care for my bird more than I do anything else. The tape is there because it is a hunting staff and it is not a regular perch so it is therfore called a temp perch while I prep food for the hunt. Literally minutes is the amount of time she was on there while I was only a foot away....this is the same or similar to hundreds of other falconers out there. In fact I got the idea from several other falconers at the NAFA meet that are quite well noted falconers. Where did you come up with 30 yards? I was standing right next to the bird and my ex-wife was the one taking the picture.....and Dustin, I guess my bird could be in damger from a falling meteor too...LOL!!! vivid man, vivid....Tell you what Dustin, You ask your sponsor if you can use a six foot leash and then come back to an talk like you have a clue about anything you have stated so far. Maybe if you realised what you said you would understand that the things Tanaro did where unexusable by any falconers standards(from what I got out of his first post). Tell you what, when I see your perch set up at the THA meet in Abilene, I will see if you have a 6 foot leash. Weasel(Noel) ps. Tanaro, it Does make much more sense now that you have explained the situation a bit more in detail.....ahh hell, it keeps it interesting....
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion................ and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."