Well, its been 6 weeks and she had her pins removed yesterday. The procedure took about 10 minutes tops. Hell, I could of done it myself after seeing the procedure. Anyway, she bit the living sh$#t out of the vets hand. She also drew a little blood on my hand and I was wearing a double leather gauntlet. Still not sure exactly what caused the break, although I have a few things that were errors on my part that could have led to it. The break was a clean break (in two) She broke it on a seemingly minor bate from her perch. She usually sits on her perch with no problems but for some reason on this day she got startled and bated. She seemed fine, but then she bated again and wrapped herself around a small tree. I think she landed awkwardly. When I noticed she was slightly tangled, I went to get her and set her back on her perch since she seemed confused on how to return herself. This all took place in a 3 minute timespan. As I said, she is very tame and loves to sit out. Never much for bating but it is spring and her weight is up. A couple of factors that could have possibly led to such an unusual break. After long discussions with the vet, my sponsor and other falconers, there were several things begging for an accident as such. The cause is not certain but this list could very well be a major contributor if not a combination of them. PERCH: Did not have her on her bow perch. I had her on a T perch that I normally use when she is outside. It stands about 3 feet high and she prefers it when outside over the bow perch. Since she always sits still and never tries to fly, I figured I should have no problems. The problem with using a higher perch is that the leash needs to be several feet long so she can regain it if need be. A longer leash of course enables her to pick up more speed if she decides to fly causing more pull on the leg when she gets to the end of the rope. I normally have a spring system attached to this set up to absorb the shock. Unfortunately, I didn't attach it this one time. WEIGHT Not necessarily a major contributor but combined with the longer leash hookup, could have been a possible contributor. She flies at 38, trapped at 44 and I had her up to 52 ounces. That is alot of extra weight for her and more stress on her leg. Point being, I have always been in pretty decent shape. Once I started gaining some weight with age, I started twisting my ankle at times. I never had the problem before but weight will contribute to such injuries. The same would hold true for Raptors in my opinion. DIET Although the vet pretty much ruled this one out, he did suggest that it was important that she ate the right foods. Full body foods. If feeding you bird things such as chicken heart, chicken necks and venison, you could be asking for trouble. These foods fed alone don't carry enough of the needed calcium for the bird to use. Thus, creating weaker bones. Keep in mind that Vitahawk is not a proper calcium supplement and is not intended for that purpose. So, nothing but Quail and Rats for my bird. If I use Venison (which is extremely convenient) it will only be for tidbiting during training or out in the field. I will never feed her on it as a meal. Vitahwk, or no Vitahawk. PERCH PLACEMENT Of course this is a given but sometimes we don't see potential hazards that the bird may get into. That would include any objects such as bushes, trees, branches etc.. that the bird can wrap herself around. Sometimes you think.."hell, she wont fly onto that crap, but the fact is Murphy's law is alive and well when it comes to tethered birds. Anyway, I just thought I would share some of this info that I have learned the hard way. Always be careful and always think from the birds point of view. keep in mind that they lack common sense. Gee, and to think, you get this info for free. It cost me $460.
Post by Master Yarak on Jun 11, 2006 13:08:02 GMT -5
All things considered it looks like it healed up great. I appreciate it was an expensive lesson. Life is learning. Don't beat yourself up. It sounds like you discovered the cause and I will bet you attach that spring everytime from now on. I kept Bane way too fat her first moult. I let her free feed on as much as she wanted. No one told me any different. She trapped at 54.5 oz I had her as high as 68 oz. I took her to vet for her annual fecal and coping before the weight drop. I got chastised by my vet for her weight. It took forever to get her in shape. From them on, I have kept her within 2 oz of her trap weight throughout the moult. Diet is another biggie I always talk about. Whole carcass diet. I am fortunate to catch enough game to feed her year round. Lots of squirrels, some snakes and bunnies. Occasionally chicken, beef heart and turkey necks just for some variety. I have not seen any nutritional problems with this diet. I have never fed anything from the colombidae family. I wont feed pigeons or doves ever, under any circumstances. Quail and rats are good but she has only ever taken two rats, I attribute that to not including them in her diet. Prevention is a full time job. I have been lucky in many aspects of this sport. I also really try to anticipate anything that can go wrong. Thanks for posting. Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
I have always heard that a steady diet of quail is not good for a raptors feather strength. I am sure someone will tell me about that in thier replys to this posting. I would like to know. I have fed quail in the past, but, never as the main diet. I like to feed the bird rabbits and an occasional small bird and every once in a while I'll throw in a duck that was caught by a falcon. My birds eat rabbit as thier main diet. When I am flying the HH out in the field, I always feed him the small birds that I have from the trap that the water district brings birds too. When he is at home, he gets rabbits.
Post by Master Yarak on Jun 11, 2006 18:27:02 GMT -5
Oh yeah! That reminds me. I too have heard that a very rich diet can cause feathers to curl up at the ends! Yarak
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away
Post by birdguy888 on Jun 12, 2006 14:03:26 GMT -5
Be careful with feeding rabbit as the main-stay! It is a white meat and can cause your bird to become enemic and die. It is a very common problem with falconry birds that eat white meat more than 5 times a week. They have to have rich, red meats to keep their red blood cell count up. Personally I only give my birds white meat no more than twice a week. The rest of the week they get red meats such as quail, mice, starlings, sparrows, dove and pigeons (home raised and medicated so I know they are safe and free of diseases). With the white meats I alternate them between rabbit, rat and pheasant (never giving the sme thing twice in a week) and with the white meat I also give a vitamin/mineral supplement.
If you guys want to see a copule of x-rays of broken raptor bones (a wing and a leg) go to my site at www.diversityinutah.com/falconry1.html and under Medical Issues click on the links.
Hey Eddie, I believe I sent you all these pictures as well. Sorry about the x-ray, but if I wanted a printed out copy, I was going to have to pay for it. That is why I never sent you a pic of it. As far as the quail go, I heard good and half good. Never heard anything bad. The vet I dealt with said it would be an excellent diet for the bird. I do know that it is rich in protein and lays heavy, but as I said, I will be mixing in rats as well. I believe rats are a white meat whereas the quail are a red meat. I would venture to say that diet should be plenty sufficient when she is not croping up on squirrel and the like. I know people who feed their birds nothing but quail, I know others who have fed their Red Tails nothing but venison and whatever they caught during the hunting season. Neither of the two had ever had problems with their bird health. Although it may have worked for them doesn't mean it will work for my bird. No sense in asking for problems if you can avoid it. Safest bet is to be safe. If I fed her nothing but quail, not sure it would be a health issue, but why chance it when I can throw in rats as well.
Post by Falcon Boy on Jun 12, 2006 23:03:16 GMT -5
I deleted all the "flame" posts that were made to prevent this from going overboard before the actual poster saw it. Weasel if you want to discuss it further than PM me. All the things that were mentioned in the original post were POSSIBILITIES, not the 100% cause of the injury.
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
?? Falconboy, What posts were deleted? Who flamed? I see no reason why someone would flame on this posts. I was very vague in my description on what COULD OF HAPPENED not what did happen. Next time maybe I need to be a little more precise when typing. I don't know exactly what was said in previous posts but let me back track somewhat on the original post. The T perch I use from time to time is ONLY used when I am working with or standing close by to the bird. It is 3 feet high. When stuck into the ground it is two feet from the ground. The leash itself is 6 feet long. Reason being, I usually work her from this setup so she can hop to the glove. I have always had a spring attached with slack in case of a bate. I took the spring off because it needed changing. It was somewhat stretched out and had the potential to tangle in the lease itself. I did mention that she wrapped around a tree but I wasn't very clear in describing the actual event. The leash wasn't long enough to actually allow her to do so. She did however (after her initial bate) walk partially behind the tree(she couldn't get around the tree because her leash wasn't long enough) There was an exposed root that she walked up on to. It was then I walked over to her to set her back on the perch and noticed she was holding her leg in an awkward position (damage done) She went to slightly bate a second time but ended up hoping a couple of feet toward her perch on one leg. Now, because the break was of an unusual nature, it was suggested by the vet that the bird could very well of had a calcium deffeciency as an eyass and had a weak spot in that area of the bone. BECAUSE, her weight was high and her leash allowed a little extra momentum than usual, it COULD have contributed to causing the break. It could have very well happend from a bate off the fist. I was only trying to outline exagerrated points for other apprentices who will be getting thier first bird. WHAT NOT TO DO as explained to me. It was not posted for someone to flame. I can take criticism. I relish in it. I am open to opinions and I'm not closed minded to someone's thoughts. I do however have a problem when people throw stones when living in glass houses. I don't believe for a second there is a person on this board that never had a lapse of common sense at least one point in time with thier bird. Wether it be thier first or 50th. I for one have the balls to owe up to it. I didn't have to post crap about the incident at all. I didn't have to post pictures. No one would no the difference, but I felt it would be beneficial to others. Like I said, I welcom all opinions and thoughts, but if someone is going to make a smart a$$ post and try to judge me, then I would appreciate it if you would drop me an email instead of blasting my post. Just in case those of you who need it::: tanaro2@aol.com I apologize for those who have been cordial on the topic, and sorry for the rant. Falconboy.. You would be doing me a great service if you could email me the posts that were deleted. I'm curious to see what was said and who said it. Thanks.
Yeah, each bird is definately different. I just feed a varied diet reguardless to avoid problems. I get at least 2 or 3 calls a year from a falconer where there bird is lathargic, droopy, non-responsive, won't eat well, etc. Once they take it to the avian vet and have blood work done and checked under the microscope it is always enemia. No matter the species, a varied diet is best.
FB, I assume that that the flamers were complaining about the broken leg issue? Accidents happen. They always have and always will and everyone needs to realize that. We take the best care of our birds to the best of our abilities.
Tanaro, You want constructive criticism? Here it is. My previous posts where about the series of events that SHOULD NOT of come together.....The major point is why was the bird left unattended with so many temporary and completely unaceptable things in place at one time? I wish FB had left the posts as I am not the type to take bird injuries lightly and certainly not when they so easily could of been prevented.....in addition, you also stated that the forum was in part to blame... What gives with this?
Eddie Wrote: "Accidents happen. They always have and always will and everyone needs to realize that. We take the best care of our birds to the best of our abilities." This is my point Eddie.....in my opinion, it was not the best care on tanaro's part. I do appreciate that he has the sense to see his mistakes, but they still should not of happened in the first place. I personally think he became complacent with the things he was doing much as we all do, only his had multiple points that could of affected the outcome of the birds broken leg. Some points I would like to make about Tanaro's post that set me off...... You stated that the bird was on a 3ft high T perch......This is a piss poor design....plain and simply and you even stated in your post that you use it regularly over the bow and then you countered with your second post to state that it is only used when you are there and now it has been deemed to be only 2 ft high instead of three. Which is it???. You still state that it is now only 2ft with a SIX FOOT LEASH!!!!!!!....that's not a leash, it's a creance.......bad......and Tanaro if you think I am throwing stones in a glass house......throw back....I will NOT be cordial about such a series of events that cause you bird an injury when things like a SIX FOOT leash, that are plainly UNacceptable, where implimented. If you want, I can go on and delve deeper into discution with you about this, but I don't beleive all the others on here that sigh with whymsical notions that you have done nothing more that have a terrible accident when in fact, it was gross negligence on your part.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion................ and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."
Weasel i delted the posts becuase you were calling me a "pompous ass" for stating fact/opinion and you called your former sponsor a "backstabber". Honestly it made you come off as an arrogent ass but i wish i had left them now
I won't make any more replies for now since you don't seem to want others opinions, i will wait and see what Tanaro2 posts.
Falcon Boy Apprentice Falconry Administrator
Ethics make the individual, not the other way around.
Post by Master Yarak on Jun 13, 2006 9:44:33 GMT -5
He called me a backstabber? Resorting to name calling I thought was beneath you Weasel. I guess not. Please explain to the forum exactly how I back stabbed you. You have certainly piqued my curiosity. I certainly did all I could to teach you how to prevent mistakes. Your previous posts smacked of a holier than thou attitude and based on YOUR track record that was very unbecoming. I too am interested in what Tanaro says in his response. For the record their was only one person flaming the poster. Yarak (the backstabber)
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away