The way i see it, no two birds are alike. So i don't see how an apprentice kit is going to be able to outfit the bird you end up trapping. Kind of hit or miss...
As many say you also save a lot of cash making it yourself.
Also, why not learn to make this stuff on your own. Take the money you save and buy a better scale, or some nice bells and swivels.
Im a HUGE fan of Doug Pineos equipment. If you are willing to spend a little extra cash for a LOT of extra quality. Not to plug a comerical website hehe.
Also, BEING that they are hit or miss, if its a miss, you end up spending even MORE money on getting the right furnature that fits your bird. Why gamble?
Bath pans can be found at home depot CHEAP. Leashes can be found ANYWHERE. I bought a bunch of nylon parachute cord at an army/navy surplus store and checked out a leather weaving book at the library. Its very simple, and INCREADIBLY STRONG. It supports my weight with 4 strands of parachute cord. Leather furniture, you are gonna have to learn to make it sooner or later, why not sooner? Perches are so over priced ugh. I found someone to make one for me. Took 1 hour, and less than 10 dollars worth of matierals. Hoods... dunno yet, havn't decided on it. Going to borrow whichever of my sponors old ones fit the bird i end up with, then take measurments and probably buy one from pineo. Bought a custom made glove (made from a faxed sillouette of my hand) from pineo for the same price as northwoods sells them for. Also he doesn't have pics or prices on his webpage, but he does make and sell full gaunts for Red Tails. Bells and swivel all from pineo. Titanium swivel, and velarde bells. Had my girlfriend walk down my street at night with the bells when it was quiet. Could hear them from over 300 yards away. (the end of my block and she wouldn't walk further ) Hawking vest again from pineo. Its basically 3 falconry bags on a vest. two up front, one in the back for game. AWESOME vest.
There is so much quality gear out there that you can ensure will work for you, again, why gamble on those apprentice kits???
I'm not a big fan of apprentice kits because they are not complete for specific falconry applications that the apprentice may encounter. It puts the apprentice in a weakened condition to be self sufficient with the knowledge they know how to make their own equipment, for one example.
Another concern is that it comes with a set of jesses and bracelets...what happens if you lose a jess? What happens if the bracelets included don't fit the bird you trapped? What happens when you need to add a few grommets to your bag or vest and you lack the rudimentary tools to make the most simplistic modifications to gear?
Buying a full hide of quality kangaroo and spending $100 on tools and supplies from Tandy leather is a critical step towards making the gear you need. In the long run you are better prepared as a falconer for whatever gets thrown at you. If for instance, you lose a jess in the field you should have already made ample backups and brought a second pair into the field...it is not the time to call Northwoods and order another set of jesses while keeping your hawk tied by a single jess for a week until it arrives.
Does this make sense?
One final point regarding creativity and making your own equipment to consider: If you invest the time, money and effort into making some basic equipment (like a trapping hood) you'll be a bit more artsy-fartsy and willing to tangle with challenges in the future. I've been faced with birds where I cannot buy the proper hood size for any amount of money. Had I not spent 15 years tinkering with the basics of leatherwork I would not have been able to make my own hood to accomplish what no amount of money would have been able to afford me...a bird wearing a hood that fits 48 hours from when the project started.
Don't cut corners on your own personal development by buying "falconry starter kits" because they circumvent the knowledge gaining process that is critical to your future falconry prospects.
Nice post Rookhawk I sure as heck won't be buying a apprientice kit. Though maybe some leather supplyies with be clogging the mail. My sponsor said that somtime we should sit Down and make the Jeesses and the leash,this winter so This would be the time to get some supplies and start tinkering. what Exactly Do you need?my mome had the Odds and ends like hole punchers, and maybe a needle, I suppose the patterns will tell me, so some books will be in order.
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." -Thomas Paine
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? -Marianne Williamson
Very good post rookhawk, I agree that you need to know how to make a lot of your own equipment, plus as you said, how you know it fits. I made a number of jesses in different styles and materials. I also made my own anklets and chaps. That saves a lot of money making your own.
"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid." -John Wayne
So, I was just checking out Tandy leather, and I found some stuff if course I didn't know what I needed But I checked it out and found a shop in syracuse, 3 hours away... I am going to order the book Falconry equipment, for patterns and get started mine as well nothing to do but puppy training and school, Mews and Falconry test, and got till next october so why not do somthing that will eat my time.
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." -Thomas Paine
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? -Marianne Williamson
You asked about what you might wish to buy going into falconry and I wanted to step in and spend your money. IF you have the conviction that you are going to be entering the falconry "lifestyle" and you do not have any equipment as of yet, I highly recommend buying this kit:
It will run you $549 right now (which is a steal, below dealer cost due to Tandy's sale...usually $800) This kit comes with every conceivable leatherworking tool you will need with the exception of the following:
Falconry grommet setter and grommets Needles and thread Leather dyes (if you wish) Neatsfoot oil or other dressing
This kit will show you how to stamp and carve leather. It also includes rivet setters, snap setters, and tons of other tools. Leather tools are really overpriced and this kit includes them at a $0.25 on the $1.00.
I started upgrading and expanding my leatherworking tools last year and after running the numbers, bought this kit and sold my inferior and duplicate tools on ebay to offset the cost. Realize that you won't use every tool in this kit but you will start to experiment if you have the right tools. I have never been a quality hoodmaker but recently I started making tooled, traditional eagle hoods and they turned out very well because I had the right tools for the job.
Lots of folks struggle through falconry and focus on purely utilitarian designs for equipment; that's okay too. On the other hand, if you decide to make your own gear in no time at all your equipment's quaility will be on par or superior to that gear which you can buy in the catalogs.
Early in my falconry career I focused on learning to stitch leather and made my own lures and hawking bags.
Later on I began making my own hoods for trapping and emergencies.
The past few years I've been learning to make my own lace and braiding jesses, leashes and other gear.
Becoming a master at the art isn't a destination; it is a genuine lifelong journey. The more in tune you are with your birds, properly fitting and functional equipment, and attenion to detail, the more successful you will be in the hawking field.
Your post are good, but, because I don't make my own hoods and you do does not mean a thing. It doesn't put me any closer to my bird and it doen't make me a better falconer. It may make you a better hood maker,but, some of us just don't have the artsy crafty thing or the patience to do that kind of work. While you are making your hoods, I am out there flying my birds. Different strokes for different folks, so the saying goes.
I don't make my own hoods...I make emergency hoods when in a jam or when all the money in the world can't get me what I need...A hood that fits an unusual bird species. Understanding how things like hoods and jesses fit properly allows any falconer to make proper adjustments. Rudimentary knowledge of how to brace a hood is incredibly valuable if your only hood ends up having a broken strap, don't you agree? Making good quality equipment allows us to think very little about equipment concerns when we're in the field and most importantly, allows us to focus on hawking.
When I'm hawking time is precious and I think nothing of losing a jess in the field, and the notion that my equipment may be failing never enters my mind because it is all about preparation ahead of time. When we have the basic skills to make our own equipment we tend to make multiples of everything and replace gear often. Most equipment failures and birds in poor condition occur because the falconer was using abused and worn out gear becuase they don't know how to make the gear themselves or because they cannot afford to send a check to the falconry supplier at the moment. I have nothing against buying gear but I hope that all falconers are doing it out of choice, not out of force.
Always be prepared.
Last Edit: Feb 10, 2007 23:25:24 GMT -5 by Rookhawk
I always carry a spare set of jesses that I have made in my hawking box. I have never had a hood fail me in the field {I have had one fail at home} so I have never had to do an emergency repair. I buy my hoods from hood makers who are reputable and have been in the buisness for many years. I made one hood years ago and it was not pleasing to see. I spent a lot of time on it and it was no where near what I could have bought. My point was that it is OK to buy hoods and even jesses and cuffs if that is what you want to do. To me it doesn't mean that you are not in tune with your bird. I am the type of person who can't draw a straight line with a ruler, let alone make something pleasing out of leather. My bird would be embarresed to wear it.
Post by HawkingRage on Feb 11, 2007 0:12:18 GMT -5
Get a hood from Ken hook and you will never have to worry about failure. Jesses failing? I dont understand. I make all my gear except hoods, bells, swivels and gauntlets. I agree that anklets and jesses should be made by yourself, as you can measure what you need best. Chaps are another story, if you can make them that is great for you but it is just too confusing for me. ill buy them from the maker instead of the dealer.
Jesses i use a dvd case as a stensil and cut. not only does it give me the length i like but the width is difficult to get pulled out durring a hunt. anklets are the width of 2 graumets as i use 2 of them. one for a jess and one for bells and or telemetry.
Don't be so hard on yourself, Raptrlvr. My first hood looked like a shoe and would have properly fit a toucan. Hoods aren't easy to make properly and they aren't for everybody, that's for certain. Getting to a level of competency where you can make some trapping hoods is handy in a pinch but going beyond that point isn't mission critical for most folks. I was fortunate that I was able to make a Ferrug hood for myself because I simply couldn't get one anywhere in America in less than a month's time so it was a blessing that I had the gear necessary to make one when faced with that reality.
If you're ever at a NAFA meet and want to learn how to make your own leather or synthetic leashes I'd be happy to show you how. It is a great skill to have when you're on long roadtrips with nothing to do in the car...assuming you're not the driver.
The best part about making equipment is learning different styles and patterns for gear from other falconers. One thing we've lost as American falconers is the old-world apprenticeship mindset. We don't have the privilidge of studying a trade under an expert for a decade and we all are forced to fumble through on our own.
I'm not much of a woodworker but my next falconry resolution for the decade is to learn how to turn perches. Not because I have to, but because I would love to learn how to make my own blocks and to pick up a new skill. I wish we all (myself included) were more interested in exchanging hands-on knowledge of equipment making with each other.
I was going to ask you about eagle blocks... (sorry if this is not the best spot, you can email me at tmoritz@usa.net if you wish)
I have a decent ball-bearing swiveling arab style falcon stem that I was going to use as a base while turning a new top for the perch, but I'm worried about the bird pulling it out of the ground.
What do you use for a spike on your eagle block? Do you trust the spike to keep the bird firmly on the ground? How deep does the spike penetrate the ground?
Jeese (not jesse) that kit IS expensive Owch. I know it wil save me money in the long run but 550 is MURDER. gonna have to get a job, lol or withdraw from the BAnk account, which I don't wanna do as it is Fiscally Irrisponsible and I will then really have to get a Job O well it is nessisary, so somthing gonna happen. Any thing Cheaper,
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." -Thomas Paine
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? -Marianne Williamson