[glow=purple,2,300]So is there a way to retrain, so that i may use her for falconry? she is tender so she is trained through clicker so far. If you spank her she won't go near you for a month. [/glow]
Never settle.
"There's nothing like the feeling of knowing that you've made a difference in someone's life, even if that difference is a lifetime of nightmares and a fortune in therapy bills." - Marilyn Manson
I think you can use just about ANY dog for falconry as long as we are talking rabbit flushing. It is a different story with pointers and longwingers.
A book that according to my girlfriend (the REAL animal trainer) would be helpful is "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Prior. She is one of the best dog trainers on the planet (karen prior not my girlfriend) and her techniques can easily be adapted to falconry. That book in my opinion is right up there with north american falconry and hunting hawks for those who hunt with a canine partner.
[glow=purple,2,300]Thanks ooby, I was just gettng to wondering if my dog would go to survival mood. She has before whenever she catches anything. She is a good dog don't get me wrong, and a quick and easy to train doggy.(baby words rule!) But there are times when she goes complete nuts. But i am going to ask my brother to look for that book(he works at barnes and nobles) It would be nice to get all my animals working together though. ;D[/glow]
Never settle.
"There's nothing like the feeling of knowing that you've made a difference in someone's life, even if that difference is a lifetime of nightmares and a fortune in therapy bills." - Marilyn Manson
Ya that book is a great book for training any animal. It goes deep into operant conditioning and positive/negative re-enforcement. It will help in training your dog as well as your falcon, and ultimately help you understand both of them better
[glow=purple,2,300]Thanks again. I have $12 flating around here somewhere. ;D Maybe i should train her with the approach i use with the horses rather than my other dog. oh well. I will know when the time comes. [/glow]
Never settle.
"There's nothing like the feeling of knowing that you've made a difference in someone's life, even if that difference is a lifetime of nightmares and a fortune in therapy bills." - Marilyn Manson
The fact that your dog hunts squirrels is a HUGE plus. That's showing you that it has the skills to help you. As far as dog training goes, IMHO the best out there is Bill Tarrent. He loved dogs more than people and his training methods are phenomenal. I've personally trained several dogs with his techniques and the dogs go to the field because they understand and truely want to be part of your team. You'll be amazed of the relationship you develop with your dog and the amount of love your dog will show. Don't get me started, I could go on and on... Another great writer, trainer, and storyteller is Mike Gould.
Anyway, these guys trained dogs for retrieving, but the training philosophy is there. Add in some pointing and go!!!!
Bills book is called "Hey pup, fetch it up" and Mikes is "The Labrador Shooting Dog".
[glow=purple,2,300]Any advice is always helpful when it comes to training. I have a book somewhere by Mike Gould, however I think that is stories. I am going to look for these books come soon. ( I have the names written down)[/glow]
Never settle.
"There's nothing like the feeling of knowing that you've made a difference in someone's life, even if that difference is a lifetime of nightmares and a fortune in therapy bills." - Marilyn Manson
[glow=purple,2,300]I have finally found a picture of my dog. After hours of digging through files. Well it is about 3 years old or so. Go to the link it is too big for the forum.[/glow] www.geocities.com/yllis44/Cookie_in_Flowers_II.jpg
"There's nothing like the feeling of knowing that you've made a difference in someone's life, even if that difference is a lifetime of nightmares and a fortune in therapy bills." - Marilyn Manson
Not a bad lookin dog. There still may be hope yet. I found that just by spending time with my dog she becomes more subject to listen to me. I take my dog Tucker down to the river every day and she chases ducks for hours. Just spend some time with him/her and he/she will come to love just being with you.
"You're a smart kid Johny, you really are, but as long as I'm around you'll only be second best." The Godfather
a note of caution. I took my own advice and borrowed "Don't shoot the dog" by karen pryor and it seems there are quite a few HEAVEY QUOTE "respected dog trainers" out there who swear to using "avoidance training."
Things like shock collars, and ear pinching. I never knew much about these untill i read about them and then something clicked.
Plan on training a raptor with only positive re-enforcement, why should a dog be any different. I say this only because these "experts" say it is ok, and the best way. Don't fall for it. Stick with only positive re-enforcement, and don't fall for the rubbish these abusive "experts" dish out.
Ooby, you might want to study Behavioral Theory. You could start with Pavloff, then go to Watson and Skinner. The Ethologists have some interesting insight into animal behaviors as well. Basic behavioral theory is centered on Positive and Negative reinforcement set in schedules that are determined by the situation. As you know, it's far to complicated to get into in a few paragraphs. The bottom line is that Negative reinforcement is just as powerful as Positve reinforcement (just ask any cougar cub who's tried to pounce a porcupine ). The trick is to know the reinforcing intervention and apply it in the proper fashion. Every falconer uses negative reinforcement. When you withhold a tidbit because a bird did not complete an assigned task, you have issued negative reinforcement. I think i know what you're trying to say, but you may be a bit off on the terminology. If you're advising people not to hit their birds, then i wholeheartedly agree... under most circumstances. Most people equate negative reinforcemnt with spankings or other forms of physical abuse and nothing could be further from the truth. Bottom line; shock collars work and they don't mentally or physically injure the dog. This is a topic that can get very thick, very fast.
Last Edit: Sept 14, 2004 9:12:17 GMT -5 by Bob Dale
I will agree that with holding food is a form of negative re-enforcement, but its at the extreme shallow end of the spectrum barely even worth labeling as negative re-enforcement.
My statement is that many people claim the best way to train dogs to hunting and retrieving is with avoidance techniques. I beg to differ on the shock collar not hurting mentally of physically. If it doesn't hurt, then why is it used? It is used as something the dog does not enjoy, and is used when the dog does something other than it was told.
I am just trying to convince you dog training individuals out there to use positive re-enforcement only. You and your dog will enjoy it more.
My bottom line is this bob. If your wife wanted to train you to do the laundry. Would you rather she used a shock collar or positive re-enforcement?
Shock collar? You mean, i don't have to put that thing on when i get home?!?!
I hear you and i think we are on the same track. Reward on an intermittent reinforcement schedule is the time proven method of ingraining learned or altered behaviors. That's why you see so many slot machines in L.V. Bu that isn't to say that negative reinforcement isn't part of a training regimen. Both are viable and acceptable means of altering behaviors. I fear that there is some confusion between punishment and negative reinforcement. The psychological definition of punishment is the "infliction of pain or discomfort upon a subject for failure to conform to a predetermined course of action..." An animal trainer doesn't want to inflict pain on the animal (except under extraordinary circumstances). Agreed. However, discomfort comes in many forms. The shock collar is a good example of discomfort. Used correctly (emphasis added) it is only that... uncomfortable. Plcaing a dog in a dark room is uncomfortable for the dog. Hunger is uncomfortable as well. Hunger is a tool used consistently throughout falconry. You teach the animal to steer toward some things and away fom others.
[glow=purple,2,300]Of course she is a good looking dog, why else would we've taken her in? Cookie only responds to positive reinforcement, such as clicker training, treats, and "good girl Cooks!" Otherwise she turns tail and hides, I used to have to do floppy puppies with her until she would trust me enough to respect me. (anyone know about floppy puppies?) I stilll do flopppy puppies with her but not as much seeing as she already respects me enough, it is more of a reminder.[/glow]
Never settle.
"There's nothing like the feeling of knowing that you've made a difference in someone's life, even if that difference is a lifetime of nightmares and a fortune in therapy bills." - Marilyn Manson
well i guess we have to agree to dissagere bob. I tink those collars are punishment. BTW a lot of experts define punishment differently. what it comes down to for me is this.
Training a raptor using ONLY positive re-enforcement. I don't see how a dog is different? Why use a shock collar when one isn't needed? You can train it exactly the way we would train a raptor and get the same results.